16v vs 20v

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Postby Mr Revhead » Tue May 04, 2004 2:30 pm

hehe no its inlet, 12 inlet valve 8 exhaust.
generally speaking the 16v has a bit more low down torque and the silvertop more top end power. a 20v will eat a 16v anyday, if the 20v gets beat theres something wrong with it or the driver (this is assuming that the cars are simaler..)
i 20v quad throttle head has waaaay more POTENTIAL than a 16v but im talking about high rev wild cams etc.
oh and buying an atlantic engine??? youll need more like $20,000 than 3! theres a hell of a lot of work and $$$ bits to go into one of those...
also in a road car it would be utterly horrible to drive, they are made to rev to around 10, 000rpm so they do nothing till about 6!
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Postby Drifter4ag » Tue May 04, 2004 4:08 pm

stock for stock tho a silver top 20v wont put down much more than a redtop or bluetop engine on the dyno. but they are a pretty looking engine with blingbling quads.
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Postby suberimakuri » Tue May 04, 2004 10:35 pm

and with no center cam cover.
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Postby B1NZ » Tue May 04, 2004 11:25 pm

Drifter4ag wrote:stock for stock tho a silver top 20v wont put down much more than a redtop or bluetop engine on the dyno. but they are a pretty looking engine with blingbling quads.



but remember its not all about power, there are other things to consider, thats how my 95.5KW@ wheels can take down a B16a putting out 110ishKW @ wheels!
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Postby 4AGE 8U » Wed May 05, 2004 1:06 am

hey liftback, Autotek in christchurch recently turboed an atlantic 4age and made 374hp @ wheels on 13psi @11000rpm, it was a guy names craig who is a 4AGE guru, cum to think of it he still has 2 atlantic engines for sale
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Postby liftback » Wed May 05, 2004 9:31 am

I stand corrected then.
But you wouldnt buy an atlantic engine "just to turbo it" as you said.
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Postby Drifter4ag » Wed May 05, 2004 12:36 pm

turbo an engine of such high compression ie 13:1 + would need mung loads of fuel .. mean engine managment .. massive boost retard and the absolute best fuel money can buy. I doubt it was an "atlantic motor" as it dont count unless you source all parts from TRD USA or buy complete engine. Can you please get more specs on this "Turbo'd atlantic engine" please.
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Postby liftback » Wed May 05, 2004 12:45 pm

Perhaps I dont stand corrected then :P
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Postby PumpN » Wed May 05, 2004 12:51 pm

i wouldn't hold your breath jase :wink: :lol:

need one of those little dudes like on nzpc forum, with the flag, if you been there you will know what im talking about :wink: ohhh ohhhh i know a dude with last years ferrarri formula one engine, and he put a supercharger straight onto it and its in his dragster and it runs flat 5's
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Postby EVLGTZ » Wed May 05, 2004 1:00 pm

Drifter4ag wrote:turbo an engine of such high compression ie 13:1 + would need mung loads of fuel .. mean engine managment .. massive boost retard and the absolute best fuel money can buy. I doubt it was an "atlantic motor" as it dont count unless you source all parts from TRD USA or buy complete engine. Can you please get more specs on this "Turbo'd atlantic engine" please.


yeah also would be keen to find out more about this
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Postby Mr Revhead » Wed May 05, 2004 1:39 pm

the only reason for having an atlantic engine would be to run in an atlantic car.
you can build a simalar engine for a lot less.
for an engine to be a genine atlantic one you need all sorts of silly priced parts from TRD USA. because the class runs to strict rules most of the engine runs control parts that you can only buy from TRD USA.
there are plenty of parts out there that are similar in quality but far cheaper. im thinking maybe this guy at best has an atlantic 'style' engine. built using a few ideas from atlantic engines. although some ppl tend to think any race built 4age is an atlantic engine
and as for running a turbo on it.... well as stated above the fuel alone would need to be some super flash hot rod mix! (nitro!)
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Postby Leon » Wed May 05, 2004 2:02 pm

yeah, I think people might be over using the phrase "Atlantic Engine" when they actually mean "beastly modified 4AGE putting out lots of power, that in some ways resembles an Atlantic engine".

Atlantic engine would mean "built to comply with the rules so as to be eligible for the Formula Atlantic series".
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Postby Mr Revhead » Wed May 05, 2004 2:05 pm

Atlantic engine would mean "built to comply with the rules so as to be eligible for the Formula Atlantic series


bingo 8)
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Postby 4agepwr » Wed May 05, 2004 3:08 pm

how much would one be looking at spending to get his bluetop in the 180-200hp range and keeping it NA?
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Postby Mr Revhead » Wed May 05, 2004 3:13 pm

quite a bit..... new pistons and cams etc, if you can do all the work ya self parts could easily run to to around $1500-2000 just for the pistons and cams, then theres gaskets etc, extracters, then youd need a link to tune it properly.
of course with a little luck and hunting around you can always find better deals....
but to do it properly your looking at a full rebuld
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Postby 4agepwr » Wed May 05, 2004 6:41 pm

so turbos the way to go if u want that sorta power i guess
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Postby PumpN » Wed May 05, 2004 7:42 pm

4agepwr wrote:so turbos the way to go if u want that sorta power i guess


most definitely, but you miss out on the sound :wink: half the reason i love highly strung NA engines so much
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Postby jondee86 » Wed May 05, 2004 9:57 pm

With apologies for going off-topic, it is probably worth making a few points regarding "slapping a turbo" on to a standard N/A 4A-GE. With a standard (high) compression engine, you can safely add a small turbo and run about 5 psi boost. This will give you a modest lift in power with good drivability.

With a standard 4A-ZE (low) compression engine you can toss the SC and add a bigger turbo to run 15 psi boost. Properly set up this should give you up to about 240 hp, still with good drivability.

You can't run big boost on a high com engine unless it is a specially built racing engine with a lot of expensive high strength parts inside.

Yes, there are people who have extracted over 400 hp out of a turbo 1600 Toyota engine. From memory, one such race engine had a life expectancy of about 7 minutes, before it punched the crank out of the block :)

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Postby jondee86 » Wed May 05, 2004 10:18 pm

how much would one be looking at spending to get his bluetop in the 180-200hp range and keeping it NA?


Take a look at Bill Sherwood's page.... he covers the mods necessary to reach various power outputs. Decide what you want to do and go talk to your local race engine builder....

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Postby EVLGTZ » Wed May 05, 2004 11:02 pm

jondee86 wrote:With apologies for going off-topic, it is probably worth making a few points regarding "slapping a turbo" on to a standard N/A 4A-GE. With a standard (high) compression engine, you can safely add a small turbo and run about 5 psi boost. This will give you a modest lift in power with good drivability.

With a standard 4A-ZE (low) compression engine you can toss the SC and add a bigger turbo to run 15 psi boost. Properly set up this should give you up to about 240 hp, still with good drivability.

You can't run big boost on a high com engine unless it is a specially built racing engine with a lot of expensive high strength parts inside.

Yes, there are people who have extracted over 400 hp out of a turbo 1600 Toyota engine. From memory, one such race engine had a life expectancy of about 7 minutes, before it punched the crank out of the block :)

jondee86


Hmm hows about 15psi on std 4age and 25psi on stad 4agze, as long as tuning and fuel are good then this can be done without too much of a problem at all 8)
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