16v vs 20v

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Postby Drifter4ag » Thu May 06, 2004 1:17 pm

yea man .. i dont know where you get 5psi from
boost does not affect driveablility unless you consider wheelspin bad press. 240hp is easy pickings for a turbo 4age and with aftermarket ecu it will be reliable as any other motor.

Also with bluetop ... if you cant afford aftermarket pistons .. simply .. 1mm off the head. .8mm headgasket .. aftermarket ecu .. quads .. reasonable cams and that should be around 170HP@engine
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Postby 4AGE 8U » Thu May 06, 2004 4:22 pm

i talked to the guy craig last nite and he told me that the engine was an Atlantic 4AGE that was blown and he rebuilt it himself with the original parts, i'll try an find out who owns the car but from wat he knows that car would be in one of the up coming races at ruapuna, i'll PM everyone that is interested when i find out the details.
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Postby jondee86 » Thu May 06, 2004 11:22 pm

Hmm hows about 15psi on std 4age and 25psi on stad 4agze, as long as tuning and fuel are good then this can be done without too much of a problem at all


Just because something is possible, doesn't make it a good idea for the average punter wanting to get a bit more out of his stock engined ride.

If you look at the "add-on" turbo kits designed for fitting to standard high com engines, you will find they offer:
(a) 5-6 psi boost without intercooler, or
(b) 6-8 psi boost with a small intercooler.

TRD supercharger kits sold in the USA offer from 4 psi to 7.5 psi boost, depending on the vehicle to which they will be fitted.

Even the stock GZE only boosts to around 8 psi on a strongly built low com engine. The reason is to make an engine that is pretty much bulletproof, easy and safe to drive under all road and load conditions.

At these levels of boost you can tow a trailer up a decent hill without having to turn up the stereo to drown out the knocking :)

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Postby Drifter4ag » Fri May 07, 2004 2:09 pm

uhh ..we dont get knocking at 15 or 25psi ... and most add on turbo kits arent designed to 4age as pretty much every man and his dog drives sometihng else.
Most custom made kits when sold from performance shops ive spoken to are tuned to run around 12psi on stock compression engines .. later model hondas have problems with this because they are around 11:1 compression ratio and are limited to under 10psi or bang bang ...
but.. as ive said before ..you can do pretty much anything with aftermarket ecu
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Postby jondee86 » Fri May 07, 2004 9:05 pm

Yeah.... I guess that is pretty much the point I was trying to make. If you wanna run lots of boost there is more to it than just "slapping on a big as turbo...". Once you outstrip the ability of the stock ECU and the stock fueling system, you are into major (big dollar) mods. This fact needs to be taken into consideration by anyone planning a project. Nuff said :)

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Postby EVLGTZ » Fri May 07, 2004 10:50 pm

Drifter4ag wrote:uhh ..we dont get knocking at 15 or 25psi ... and most add on turbo kits arent designed to 4age as pretty much every man and his dog drives sometihng else.
Most custom made kits when sold from performance shops ive spoken to are tuned to run around 12psi on stock compression engines .. later model hondas have problems with this because they are around 11:1 compression ratio and are limited to under 10psi or bang bang ...
but.. as ive said before ..you can do pretty much anything with aftermarket ecu


yep no knocking here. Not really that much compression difference between old bluetop and the ze, well later Ze's anyway.
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Postby MetalupYoAss » Sun May 09, 2004 10:12 pm

there are too many people here who have 'mates' wih 'hard tuned' 4age's etc..matt and jade know what theyre talking about.. in my stock AE82 fx-gt i ran a 16.3, im putting a silver 20V in next weekend then ill take it down the strip and let you know how it goes...
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Postby 10k 20v » Mon May 10, 2004 7:48 pm

in stock terms, 20 v wins.
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all you need to do to a 16v red top his get your self a decent set of extractors made and change the cam timing. Does anyone know Ted Javis he has raced a corolla fxgt ae92 with red top for many many years now they even qualified for bathurst one year and they raced at bathurst with a pretty standard engine. He said he makes 145hp at the fly wheel in a light rolla so it honks pretty good. But yea next step would be cams but the class he is in they arent allowed to change cams.


Stock 20v already make that.
I made near on 165hp flywheel with just cams on my 20v
Going back on sat to see where i am now. Hoping close to 180 now


Well it was close. 175hp flywheel
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Postby RedMist » Tue May 11, 2004 11:48 am

Good going!

What duration, lift and grind did you use? Did you change the springs? I gather you didn't use Franklin cams?
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Postby 10k 20v » Tue May 11, 2004 8:00 pm

yeah, same cams that gave me all that trouble before.
288 intake and 302 exh with 9.1 and 8.9 lift respectively.
230 and 240 at 50 thou lift
Same springs and no headwork apart from .98mm shave. to up comp
and trd headgasket. The bottom end is a diff story but it can't take any credit for the power. Just lots of excessive rev's
They still give trouble which is why i've just gone and bought a blacktop (complete engine) to work over (toda pistons, springs, etc.) and mr rodgers to do the head. Hoping in excess of 200hp, maybee 220 if i'm lucky :D
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Postby Mr Revhead » Wed May 12, 2004 11:43 am

hey 10k 20v, are you the guy that just brought a whole heap of TRD gear for a black top in the waikato?

why you choose a black top? you replacing the rods?
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Postby 10k 20v » Wed May 12, 2004 8:08 pm

no not me. Did he buy that stuff through you?
Problem i found was that trd discontinued the titanuim retainers i was after.

Chose the blacktop after a lot of research and advice from a particular engine builder that carries a lot of pedegree. It basically went like this. (Better from factory and a better base to start with).
I was thinking about going for some h beam lightweight rods.

P.S. Found a blacktop for $800 bucks
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Postby Mr Revhead » Thu May 13, 2004 11:29 am

hmm yeah i think the rods will be a weak point on a stock blacktop, same with retainers.

wasnt me the guy got the valve gear off but hte story goes he has done 3 engines all from the same cause.... valves letting go, i think it was the retainers. who told you they are discontinued?
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Postby 10k 20v » Thu May 13, 2004 7:09 pm

my contacts at toyota
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Postby Mr Revhead » Fri May 14, 2004 4:37 pm

well thats a bugger, thats the exact part that fails most!
so what you going to use instead?
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Postby 10k 20v » Fri May 14, 2004 6:22 pm

i may yet have to make my own but i have a funny feeling toda do some.
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Postby ChaosAD » Fri May 14, 2004 8:06 pm

Ive heard bad things about titanium retainers in general, and their inherant unreliability.
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Postby Mr Revhead » Sat May 15, 2004 10:07 am

chaos ad.. what would you use then? theyd be better then stock ones i think!
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