Why doesnt Toyota build performance orientated cars anymore?

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Toyota please build....

Poll ended at Sun Dec 03, 2006 7:11 pm

Celica.
4
10%
"Hot" Corolla, Levin, Trueno.
20
49%
MR-2, MR-S
11
27%
"Hot" Yaris, Starlet.
0
No votes
Other.
6
15%
 
Total votes : 41

Re: Why doesnt Toyota build performance orientated cars anym

Postby postfach » Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:33 pm

Girvs wrote:
TTEETT wrote:concept for a new performance car...sold for $40K new?


Somehow I think that ball park figure would fall shy of a decent performance car as brand new. Then again my opinion of a performance car would be a tad more generous than some of the existing Toyota's which have been released in the past.


You're suggesting something more like the Nissan GTR? Huge price tag, limited production run, inaccessable to most (though more accessable than european equivalents)?

I think the OP was more about something that anyone could buy if they wanted to, that wasn't just another eco shitbox/family saloon. Something with a fair bit of pep and sporty suspension/fun layout.
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Re: Why doesnt Toyota build performance orientated cars anym

Postby Girvs » Sun Jan 11, 2009 5:41 pm

postfach wrote:You're suggesting something more like the Nissan GTR? Huge price tag, limited production run, inaccessable to most (though more accessable than european equivalents)?

I think the OP was more about something that anyone could buy if they wanted to, that wasn't just another eco shitbox/family saloon. Something with a fair bit of pep and sporty suspension/fun layout.


WRT the GTR, remember it was designed to be hand made (which limits its production run) and was designed as competition to the Porsche 911. I can't foresee Toyota designing anything which will be released in the next year or two as competition to the GTR or 911.

Look at what Toyota's brand is now, cheap economical middle class vehicles with the leftovers from what was their performance range. Admittedly they did do well with the engineering of certain engines i.e. 2J, 1UZ, etc and some of the chasis. However I wouldn't exactly classify some of the other engines produced by Toyota as overly fantastic. the 4-AGE has shown more than enough issues (flame away) as has the 3S-GE/GTE (continue flaming).

The concept of just slamming a 2JZ-GTE into a chasis while it has the basis of a great idea given then engine is one of the strongest 6 cylinders built is getting a tad old to speak. A re-engineered or improved engine i.e something like a 3JZ or the like that is more efficient and produces more power would be ideal....though I can't see Toyota doing this in a hurry.
Along those lines however it would require a completely new model or upgrade from an existing model, should they do so it would most likely not fall within the $40K bracket, especially brand new.

For some small part Toyota's fleet would fall within the performance bracket i.e. Celica, Supra, MR2, etc. I wouldn't consider the fact that they threw the same engine from an 3SGTE into a Caldina that its considered a performance car. Its just a station wagon with an engine with more pep than a standard station wagon (guessing this is lining up a 3rd flaming).
All this is is alluding to is that all thats happening is re-inventing the wheel (not in a literal term), but transferring older engines into newer chasis with no major technologies or breakthroughs.

/end rant
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Postby solitaire » Sun Jan 11, 2009 5:49 pm

I understand what your saying, and aggree for the most part.

But if they can throw a 4age into a revised rwd chassis and manufacture for a minimum amount of r&d the price would be kept to a minimum and im sure it would still be a load of fun to drive.

Plentifull parts, reliable engine, thats what toyota is all about i reckon. They are unlikely to manufacture a gtr killer - theres no money in it IMHO.

But why not capture a niche market but manufacturing cheap, reliable enthusiastic cars buy taking what they have a tweaking it a little?
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Postby Lloyd » Sun Jan 11, 2009 6:02 pm

Because its not economically viable to build such a car. The best chance of seeing a quick RWD car out of Toyota is a Lexus model filtering down as they get older (Altezza anyone?).

4AGE is a damn old engine design which is never going to get used in a new car. Likewise with damn near any RWD chassis they have. To reuse one and meet standards its going to be just as cheap to design a whole new setup. Even the JZ is getting on. There are still all sorts of emissions regulations and things to meet too.

And Nissan is laying off 1400 employees now too I see


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Postby Mr Revhead » Sun Jan 11, 2009 6:19 pm

yeah the GTR isnt a production car, its a marketing tool :P

there is just NO way an older engine will be used in anything new
tougher emissions rules and modern efficiency expectations see to that.

if the IS-F sells well, then i reckon you will see more cars from Lexus with some performance aspects

if subaru and toyota do come out with a shared platform then maybe there will be a RWD verison. easier to do if you have an existing 4WD. then again, the 2wd imprezas are FWD. and when your talking about lightweight lowish power cars, FWD is faster
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Postby wishihadaTE27 » Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:07 am

TTEETT wrote:
pyro_sniper2002 wrote:Why dont they?? Did you ever do economics?? Well if you didnt, my best guess is because there is not a very large market for them anymore.


Yes I did do economics got top of the class, it was a Hypothetical Question?

Don’t suppose you did art, drama or graphics (creatives) as you didn’t sagest anything? :D


Top of the class in economics yet can't spell suggest ? :P

+1 for RWD updated ae86
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Postby Py7h0n » Fri Jan 30, 2009 1:42 pm

Toyota needs to move away from the V6 and V8 craze. I'm sorry but the IS-F is not a Supra and the Avalon is just a overpowered FWD.

Bring in a replacement for the 2JZ in a nice new lightweight body and give the GTR and Euro's some competition. I'm sure the 15 years they have had since originally bringing it out will allow for an engine to be produced that is as strong and useable while also meeting new standards.
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Postby xsspeed » Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:22 pm

+1

I <3 straight 6's

Do this, make it lighter and higher kW/torque than the Ford F6/Typhoon motor = win/hard/expensive but still win
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Postby Mr Revhead » Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:49 pm

i really cant ever see toyota (or anyone else for that matter) designing another I6 engine for use in a passenger car again
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Postby mr30%jr » Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:19 pm

just like most cars these days theyve lost there apeal. a driving one. its all saftey and features and greeny crap... i too would like to see something 4 cyl FR and under a tonne from toyota but you just wont see it they would get slammed to hell and back with things like no airbags n abs.
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Postby johndoe1025 » Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:28 pm

Mr Revhead wrote:if the IS-F sells well, then i reckon you will see more cars from Lexus with some performance aspects
r


it IS selling well lol round 20 in 3 months, thats 20 $150,000 vehicles :P from a brand that doesnt do loud and fast :D
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Postby xsspeed » Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:18 pm

Mr Revhead wrote:i really cant ever see toyota (or anyone else for that matter) designing another I6 engine for use in a passenger car again


You shut your mouth when your talking to me! :lol:

This thread is about dreams innit?
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Postby Mr Revhead » Sat Jan 31, 2009 1:16 pm

appears so! :lol:
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Postby MasCam » Fri Feb 13, 2009 7:31 pm

so the suggestion is a small rear wheel drive car with a twin turbo 3ltr l6 in it. thats crazy

or is it??


and yes I know its ugly, I,d still hit it.
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Postby bbq1988 » Sat Feb 14, 2009 10:11 am

A well designed twin charged 4pot with emphasis on suspension and brakes would be a winner in my mind, maybe the size of a corolla 2door hatch, RWD or AWD.

Twin charged FTW!
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Postby TTEETT » Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:37 am

wishihadaTE27 wrote:
TTEETT wrote:
pyro_sniper2002 wrote:Why dont they?? Did you ever do economics?? Well if you didnt, my best guess is because there is not a very large market for them anymore.


Yes I did do economics got top of the class, it was a Hypothetical Question?

Don’t suppose you did art, drama or graphics (creatives) as you didn’t sagest anything? :D


Top of the class in economics yet can't spell suggest ? :P

+1 for RWD updated ae86



Nope can’t spell for shit, nor can Richard Branson, imagination makes the world go round not spelling.

Anyways, thread dig and I apologise but Toyota will be building a small RWD sports car and will sell it for under 40K. Go Figure.
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Postby Mr Revhead » Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:46 am

40k in nz?
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Postby Adamal » Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:02 am

This thread is kinda redundant now isn't it? :P

Maybe Akio Toyoda has been reading our forums!

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Postby TTEETT » Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:36 am

Mr Revhead wrote:40k in nz?


Thats what they are saying. I am looking at getting one of the first in NZ :D

Hi Akio.

Yea sorry its been dug up twice now was, just a laugh looking at all the comments and then three years later its happening?
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Postby Mr Revhead » Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:42 am

I'll beleive that when I see it!
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