F1 2008!!!

[repowered]

Yeah, took the gamble to stay on slicks, almost payed off until it got to wet on the last lap, which in turn handed the title to Hamilton. Dont think he spun, he just couldnt get any grip.

Yea thats is true, i thought it was massas for sure was gutted and then saw glock slowing and was like yeeeea, well done lewis and McLaren

[fivebob]

A picture tells a thousand words

[repowered]

haha yea that was funny the ferrari guys going nuts then realising oooh actually lewis got past glock with a few hundred meters to go.

[Mr Revhead]

counting chickens, hatched, before etc etc......


well deserved win by hamilton and mclaren but boy, was it a nail biter!!

[JustinSpiderholden]

counting chickens, hatched, before etc etc......


well deserved win by hamilton and mclaren but boy, was it a nail biter!!

He is about as deserving world champion as Damion Hill

I don't rate him at all, I wonder if he would be able to perfrom to the same level if he was given a lesser car.

If he can prove to me that he is as gooder driver in a lesser car then I will be impressed, but until then he just lucky that he has the best car

[1I1]

counting chickens, hatched, before etc etc......


well deserved win by hamilton and mclaren but boy, was it a nail biter!!

He is about as deserving world champion as Damion Hill

I don't rate him at all, I wonder if he would be able to perfrom to the same level if he was given a lesser car.

If he can prove to me that he is as gooder driver in a lesser car then I will be impressed, but until then he just lucky that he has the best car

i would have thought the ferrari was the better car tho as they did win the manufactures title - which requires consistant finishes from both drivers not just one

[JustinSpiderholden]

counting chickens, hatched, before etc etc......


well deserved win by hamilton and mclaren but boy, was it a nail biter!!

He is about as deserving world champion as Damion Hill

I don't rate him at all, I wonder if he would be able to perfrom to the same level if he was given a lesser car.

If he can prove to me that he is as gooder driver in a lesser car then I will be impressed, but until then he just lucky that he has the best car

i would have thought the ferrari was the better car tho as they did win the manufactures title - which requires consistant finishes from both drivers not just one

Maybe or Maybe not

It could be that the Ferrari drivers as a pair are of a higher level than the 2 McLaren drivers as a pair

My main point is though would Lewis be as impressive if he was in a William's or a RedBull.

We have never got to see how good of a driver he is as he has always been with one of the top teams

What I think would be intresting is if Vettel was given a drive of a McClaren or Ferrari this year the title race would have been very differnt

[Adamal]

You don't rate someone who has become the YOUNGEST world champion, and has done so in only his SECOND season of racing?

Explain.

[rolla_fxgt]

It could be that the Ferrari drivers as a pair are of a higher level than the 2 McLaren drivers as a pair

My main point is though would Lewis be as impressive if he was in a William's or a RedBull.

We have never got to see how good of a driver he is as he has always been with one of the top teams

What I think would be intresting is if Vettel was given a drive of a McClaren or Ferrari this year the title race would have been very differnt

So basically, your saying we should only let the drivers of the lesser cars win the world championship?
or everyone should run in the same car so they get the same opportunity?

Yes I think Vettel is good, but I don't think he'd of beaten Hamilton, even if he'd been in a Mclaren or a Ferrari, you've got to remember that if you drive for a top team there is more pressure on you to perform, and maybe Vettel wouldn't of coped. I guess its the million dollar question we won't know the answer too

[thornz]

You don't rate someone who has become the YOUNGEST world champion, and has done so in only his SECOND season of racing?

Explain.

I think its too early yet to call him a great, only time will tell that. There is still the chance that he will become a dud, Jacques Villeneuve proved just how much a good car and a average teammate doesnt make you a great driver. Almost won in his first season, against damon hill (who I dont rate all that highly either), then won in his second season in the best car with a aveage teammate in Frentzen. What Villenueve and Hamilton have achieved is pretty much the same.

You could make an argument that if Hamilton had a competitive teammate that could of beaten him and taken points away from him, such as Alonso like last year, he wouldn't have been world champion, but hell, you could make many arguments in hindsight.

While I have to say he is the best thing to happen to F1 in years with the amount of controversy and great racing he has helped to produce, it is still way to early to rate him highly. Myself, the drivers that really impressed me this year and I would rate higher than Hamilton, were Kubica, and Vettel. I just hope that we will see these two up the front in more competitive cars battling with hamilton in teh future.

Im not saying that Hamilton isn't gonna be a record breaker in the sport, but I just hate when people jump on the band wagon, much as they did with the likes of Villeneuve and Hill, both in my opinion were good drivers (not great), in the best car.

End rant

[JustinSpiderholden]

You don't rate someone who has become the YOUNGEST world champion, and has done so in only his SECOND season of racing?

Explain.

I think its too early yet to call him a great, only time will tell that. There is still the chance that he will become a dud, Jacques Villeneuve proved just how much a good car and a average teammate doesnt make you a great driver. Almost won in his first season, against damon hill (who I dont rate all that highly either), then won in his second season in the best car with a aveage teammate in Frentzen. What Villenueve and Hamilton have achieved is pretty much the same.

You could make an argument that if Hamilton had a competitive teammate that could of beaten him and taken points away from him, such as Alonso like last year, he wouldn't have been world champion, but hell, you could make many arguments in hindsight.

While I have to say he is the best thing to happen to F1 in years with the amount of controversy and great racing he has helped to produce, it is still way to early to rate him highly. Myself, the drivers that really impressed me this year and I would rate higher than Hamilton, were Kubica, and Vettel. I just hope that we will see these two up the front in more competitive cars battling with hamilton in teh future.

Im not saying that Hamilton isn't gonna be a record breaker in the sport, but I just hate when people jump on the band wagon, much as they did with the likes of Villeneuve and Hill, both in my opinion were good drivers (not great), in the best car.

End rant

Bang couldnt say it better myself

[Mr Revhead]

sour grapes a strong flavour around here

yes the car is a big part of it.... always has been always will be.
being a top driver these days is also about getting your self where you need to be.
i have no doubt vettel would shine in a top car.
thats not the point

if you look back through the year, i think you will find massa was making more driver errors than many of the other top runners... that alone says to me hamilton > massa

calling a previous champion a dud is a weird thing... they still beat 20 other odd drivers.... if your after a dud, maybe kovalinen would be a better target, or piquet...

[thornz]

:lol: sour grapes a strong flavour around here

yes the car is a big part of it.... always has been always will be.
being a top driver these days is also about getting your self where you need to be.
i have no doubt vettel would shine in a top car.
thats not the point

if you look back through the year, i think you will find massa was making more driver errors than many of the other top runners... that alone says to me hamilton > massa

calling a previous champion a dud is a weird thing... they still beat 20 other odd drivers.... if your after a dud, maybe kovalinen would be a better target, or piquet...

Dont get me started on Kovalinen

[2jayzgte]

I agree with some of the points raised here but to say Hamilton's not a good driver is HARSH.he also proved with the help of McLaren that he was extremely consistent and learnt his lessons from last year,showed alot of discipline in the last 3 races and did a good job so he is a deserved champion. He is better than Massa though I think Massa is one of the most underated of all the top drivers.

The best 2 drivers in F1 in my view are Kimi Raikkonen and Fernando Alonso.My proof well for out and out speed during a actual race its Raikkonen for sure had the most fastest laps during the season 10 or 11 I'm sure someone will correct me there.As for Alonso in a lesser car like the Renault was he and the team nearly put that thing up near the top come the end of the season and I'm pretty sure if he was driving the Ferrari he would be a 3 time world champ.

[JustinSpiderholden]

:lol: sour grapes a strong flavour around here

yes the car is a big part of it.... always has been always will be.
being a top driver these days is also about getting your self where you need to be.
i have no doubt vettel would shine in a top car.
thats not the point

if you look back through the year, i think you will find massa was making more driver errors than many of the other top runners... that alone says to me hamilton > massa

calling a previous champion a dud is a weird thing... they still beat 20 other odd drivers.... if your after a dud, maybe kovalinen would be a better target, or piquet...

No Sour Grapes from me as IMO the greatest ther ever was and ever will be was Suchmacher

Next year will be intresting

With all the rule changes, I have a feeling that BMW are going to be very strong

[thornz]

I'm not saying Hamilton is not a good driver, he is, but wheter he is a great, in the terms of senna, schumacher etc, only time is going to tell, the fact is, all drivers that make it to F1 are good, and only a few are greats.

I guess ultimately my main disappointment was for a championship battle, it was pretty farcical, the best way to describe my feelings, is from this quote taken from another forum

"I was comparing this season more to a Prost/Senna, MS/Hakkinen, MS/Raikkonen, MS/Alonso classic season were the drivers had to be even more brilliant than the other to win....... not this year where they traded spins/crashes/fines/bad tyre choices/botched pitstops......it was pretty farsical."

That sums up the way I feel perfectly. Yes, we had one of the most exciting races I've ever witnessed in the final round, but really, the rest of the season was a comedy of errors by the teams and drivers involved.

[fivebob]

IMO the greatest ther ever was and ever will be was Suchmacher

Now there's an interesting thing, Schumacher rates Hamilton quite highly, yet his fans don't. Maybe they're scared Hamilton might beat some of his (meaningless) records.

For me I don't rate Schumacher as a great driver, talented yes, but not great. Such accolades should be reserved for the few drivers that really shine out like Fangio, Jim Clark and Senna

As to whether it's Hamilton or the car, it's always going to be a bit of both.

An average driver in a good car is never going to consistently win ( e.g. Ralf, Montoya) likewise a good driver in an average car is even less likely to find a place on the podium (Schumacher/Ferrari pre '99, Hakkinen/McLaren pre '98 ). It takes a combination of both to consistently get podium finishes, and to do so in your rookie year, with a double W/C as your team mate and to beat him in the championship (albeit by only 1 point), is a very good indicator of things to come, to repeat the level of performance the following year only re-enforces his potential for greatness.

As to the “Journeymen” winners of past championships, like Hill, Villeneuve, Hunt, Scheckter, Rosberg, Alan Jones, Brabham, even Denny Hulme and quite a few others I could name, they all had to beat there rivals throughout the year to gain the championship and they had to know how to play the game that is F1. What makes then any less deserved champions than any of the so called “Greats”?

[matt dunn]

and the even bigger question?


Did the toyota slow on purpose to let Lewis pass???

[2jayzgte]

and the even bigger question?


Did the toyota slow on purpose to let Lewis pass???

It did sought of look like that but I saw a report that said he made a mistake the previous corner and with him still using slicks just had no grip and put himself out of position for the last corner....But just imagine the contraversy that would cause if Glock lifted and pulled to the side to give Hamilton his 5th place...Crazyer things have happend..Does'nt matter though its in the book now the result can't be challanged.

[TRD Man]

Fivebob makes a lot of sense, however I wouldn't be so dismissive of Schummacher as a 'great'. Particularly if you're comparing him to Senna.
Both were very similar particularly in their determination to win at all costs.
At first glance you could be forgiven for believing Senna to be the more technically proficient however let's remember that it is Schu's skill, knowledge, 'feel', his ability to build a cohesive team and his unrivalled workrate that is credited with turning Ferrari from an also ran into the championship winning team it was for so many years. That and seven world titles? If that doesn't rate him as amongst the greatest I'd love to see the criteria.

Is Hamilton a great driver? Of course he is. They're all great - whether they're likeable or not. They don't hand these titles out just for turning up. And to be the dominant driver in both his rookie and subsequent years, and the renowned 'man to beat', so early in his career, speaks volumes.

It's intriguing to read some younger members views on past era that they could not have witnessed due to their age. How many of you have ever heard of Ronnie Peterson? One of the most talented men ever to sit behind the wheel of an F1 car and my all time favorite.

You want to talk about greatness? This is greatness!

"... and for 1978 he returned to Lotus as a number two to Mario Andretti. Mario at first questioned this arrangement as he well new that Ronnie was no number two. As an indication of his character Ronnie accepted this position without malice; a far cry from the political intrigue that is Formula 1 today. Together they dominated the 1978 season in the Lotus 79 with Peterson scoring a pair of spectacular wins. Peterson acted the loyal number two but there were time when his brilliance could not be masked. He out qualified his teammate at Brands Hatch even though he was using hard compound tires, rather than the qualifiers which were held for Andretti, and a half tank of gas! After his victory at Zeltweg in Austria he trailed Andretti by only 9 points with 4 races remaining. It was well known that he would be with another team in 1979 and some suggested that he should just go for the championship with nothing to lose. Nothing except his word: "I'm going to McLaren next year", he said. "It's not announced yet, but Mario knows, Some of these people," he sighed, "who say I should forget our agreement now... I don't understand them. I had open eyes when I signed the contract, and I also gave my word. If I break it now, who will ever trust me again?" At the next race Andretti's car broke an exhaust and lost power yet Peterson followed him over the line. Peterson felt that his time would come next year, as he had been offered a number one position with McLaren."