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Postby method » Sat Nov 19, 2005 4:14 pm

Liscensing should be made way more strict, i found it soo easy to pass it wasnt funny.

If you could drive in a straight line and indicate when turning you pretty much pass.

Rather than changing laws to cater for idiots why not change things to educate the idiots.
Next thing you know we would be made to wear helmets, drive at 20kph and have our hazards flashing :roll:

Although i do think some suburban roads should be 40kph. You cant even do 50kph down most of them anyway with cars on both sides of the road and kids playing etc.

Fair enough that large roads like great north are 50kph, some are even 60kph which they should be, and there should be more of these main routes and motorways. Allthough that could be a bit too good if it did come true.
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Postby Cahuna » Sat Nov 19, 2005 4:23 pm

Speed limits are fine when they are set at a reasonable level, when they are not (and are enforced) then the law is an ass. And that applies if the limit is too high for a given road equally as for limits too low. Examples:

* The speed limit on the motorway system is 100km/h, same as for most of the open road. But you will be much safer driving at 100km/h on the Northern Motorway than (for example) the gravel roads going out towards Raglan. I competed at a Rallysprint on one of those gravel roads a fortnight and I only got above 100km/h twice. Ergo, IMO the speed limit should be lower on the gravel roads to recognise their relative lack of safety for Joe Average.

* The speed limit on Oteha Valley Rd (on Aucklands North Shore) is pegged at 60km/h. Along this 2km stretch of dual-lane road there are 2 roundabouts and no other sideroads/driveways. What you get is a dangerous situation where some people stick to the 60km/h speed limit, some people the de-facto limit (with tolerance) of 70km/h and others do 80-90km/h. And this is just mamma and pappa driving their everyday cars in everyday ways doing these speeds, not boy racers. So if a normally law-abiding citizen feels safe doing a speed higher than the marked limit is the limit in fact unreasonable?

Australia is interesting to drive in. Most drivers are of similar skill levels to NZ drivers but not all have the agressive attitudes we have. Their speed limits for urban roads are usually 60km/h (going up to 80km/h for more open stretches) and 50km/h in residential streets. Motorways and open roads are 100km/h or 110km/h. Their speed limits can vary quite frequently on a single stretch of road, depending on what each part of it is - Springvale Rd in Melbourne can change between 60km/h and 90km/h limits every 800m or so! But even as a visitor I usually find myself sitting on the correct speed limit by virtue of driving as quickly as I think the conditions allow. Funnily enough on urban roads in NZ doing the same thing I usually find myself almost exactly 10km/h over the marked limit.

Raising driver skill levels may help a little but having spent a number of years as a Prodrive tutor I know just how bad the driving skills are of the average citizen (not only learners, parents too). I think trying to educate NZ drivers to a decent standard would be akin to trying to shovel shit uphill with a pitchfork. And the most difficult part of the job would be changing the mental attitudes - you can train most people how to control a car but it is far harder to change their attitudes.

Another thought on urban speed limits; as far as I know the speed limit of 50km/h was drived from an original 30mph speed limit before metrification (correct me if I'm wrong). Surely a modern car is capable of stopping before and/or avoiding a sudden hazard than a car made in the 60's/70's when the speed limit was introduced? If so then why make people drive slower than they already do.

So in summary I don't mind if the speed limits get enforced more rigidly but ONLY if the speed limits are set at a reasonable level in the first place, and I don't believe most of our urban-road limits are. Driver education would help but I hold no hope of changing driver attitudes, which is the key.

Very lengthy rant finished :lol:
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Postby BlakJak » Sat Nov 19, 2005 4:34 pm

I think 50-60k around urban streets is more than adequate. I have more problems with people who sit between 40 and 50 (instead of between 50 and 60) and don't know how to let people behind them pass...

Theres some stretches of road which are marked as 60 which should be 80's, IMHO, and likewise some marked as 50 which should be 70.
100 is a fair limit, and 110 would be appropriate in some places - like Aussie.

'sides, the limit is a guideline - gravel roads, etc, well - you drive to the conditions, not to the posted limit.

The limits we have now aren't the problem. Stupid drivers are. Driver education needs to be the focus...
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Postby Santa'sBoostinSleigh » Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:53 am

BlakJak wrote:The limits we have now aren't the problem. Stupid drivers are. Driver education needs to be the focus...

yes, i agree totally
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Postby Lanius » Mon Nov 21, 2005 12:14 pm

BlakJak wrote:I think 50-60k around urban streets is more than adequate. I have more problems with people who sit between 40 and 50 (instead of between 50 and 60) and don't know how to let people behind them pass...

Theres some stretches of road which are marked as 60 which should be 80's, IMHO, and likewise some marked as 50 which should be 70.
100 is a fair limit, and 110 would be appropriate in some places - like Aussie.

'sides, the limit is a guideline - gravel roads, etc, well - you drive to the conditions, not to the posted limit.

The limits we have now aren't the problem. Stupid drivers are. Driver education needs to be the focus...


100% agree. There are many studies showing that training is the problem, not speeding. NZs speed limits are already quite low in comparison to many other countries. Lowering it further is *not* going to reduce the number of deaths we have on the roads.

I'd love to see how many accidents actually occurred where everyone was sticking to the limit, driving to the conditions, wasn't under the influence etc :roll: If something like 50% of all the road deaths in NZ happened under those circumstances, then I could see why they might think about lowering the limits.

Like IH8TEC said, the standard defensive driving course is a joke. Pro-Drive and the like are far better, and tend to actually teach you useable techniques and skills. Sitting in a room for 2 days, listening to someone drone on at you about the Road Code, does not constitute a defensive driving course :?
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Postby Mad Murphy » Mon Nov 21, 2005 3:01 pm

Police should be focusing on people who speed in residential areas, I see too many people not even bother to slow down when they enter a 50. Also, raising the limit to 110 on main roads would piss me off, my car has a 105kmh dinger thing.
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Postby Rumad » Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:56 pm

Mmm, Boost wrote:
Ae92typeX wrote:
drftnmaz wrote:bah more revenue-gathering...


but...the proposed changes dont even suggest revenue... demerits arnt exchangable for cash...
(but yes, lowering speed limit and getting a fine for speeding is- although no different to now)


umm, think laterally ppl!! More demerit points issued equals more ppl going thru the courts as a result of those demerit points accumulating quicker. This means court costs, associated costs of getting to/from the hearing (petrol tax anyone? lol, either way its travel you wouldnt normally do, and it will always go in favour of the government), enforcement costs (cos the rate at which ppl lose their licence will increase... If you accumulate more than a years worth of licence suspension you lose your licence totally and hav 2 sit the licence process from scratch again. And if u work off the basis that 1st suspension is 3 mths, 2nd is 6 mths, 3rd strike you're out! Doesnt take much when u think about it). All this and there's BOUND to be other aspects i've missed. :? So YES, in a round-about way, it is revenue gathering... Just a subtle and sneaky way of doin it...
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