20 Valves really that bad?

[scope]

TVIS kicked in yo!

i had to do it

[AceSniper]

20v's have there place hate them or love them... they turn the wheels around...


mines not to bad power wise but I wont say that coz ill get flamed for saying its quick

[Loudtoy]

Pretty much with 20v's there are god ones and bad one, get a good 20v and a smallport/bigport won't touch it. Get a bad one and put it up against a good small/big port and they be much the same. Unfortunately for toyota i have this feeling that they realeased it when honda was just seriously getting going with there dohc v-tec small capacity motors - so toyota had to put out something right then that they could claim made as much power. Unfortunately the development possibly wasn't there and so maybe 3-4 in every 10000 20v's made the claimed 160ps and were kept at toyta hq.
I fortunately had a resonably good one that only made 27ps atw less than claimed so could hold my own - wasn't a 1st time car or performance orientated car owner tho so didn't get disillusioned by power etc - more committed to making the 20v go quicker after gettin flamed by certain da6 owners who soon learnt a thing or 3 about dsimissing all 101's at a glance

[Mr Revhead]

Unfortunately the development possibly wasn't there and so maybe 3-4 in every 10000 20v's made the claimed 160ps and were kept at toyta hq

personally, i think the 20v came about for group A racing
at the time it would have been going through concept stage the corolla was cleaning up its class all over the world in group A (ae92)
on paper the 20v is a fairly serious engine, 5 valve, quad throttles VVT etc
so toyotas engineers were lokking for something that could be happy on the road, and make some serious power on the track.
then of course group A was ditched and that all went out the window.
was instead used in N1, single make class and formula toyota.
no idea if thats accurate or not, but pretty damn feasible i reckon.

[Loudtoy]

Unfortunately the development possibly wasn't there and so maybe 3-4 in every 10000 20v's made the claimed 160ps and were kept at toyta hq

personally, i think the 20v came about for group A racing
at the time it would have been going through concept stage the corolla was cleaning up its class all over the world in group A (ae92)
on paper the 20v is a fairly serious engine, 5 valve, quad throttles VVT etc
so toyotas engineers were lokking for something that could be happy on the road, and make some serious power on the track.
then of course group A was ditched and that all went out the window.
was instead used in N1, single make class and formula toyota.
no idea if thats accurate or not, but pretty damn feasible i reckon.

Super 1600 you say eh

[malc]

Pretty much with 20v's there are god ones

c'mon all 20v's are god like!


I am very happy with mine, a facelift bz-g,
noticably quicker than both my ae92 and ae86, all in standard form.

[B1NZ]

IMO opinion they are impressive little motors, Mine went well with an exhaust ran high 14's consistently on the strip, Dynoed at 96wkw witch isn't alot but with the 8000rpm's, lack of lard(excluding driver) and VVt it could hold its own against higher HP cars

For a young person that want's an alternative to a Vtec they are a great little car

[AceSniper]

throw a aftermarket close ratio on they are quite intresting

[Dragger_Dan]

Here's an idea. I think to save the pax romania around here, we need to set up the 'Stock 20v dyno fund.' Everybody can chip in like a dollar or something, and the first person to put their hand up who has either a freshly rebuilt but totally stock silvertop or a freshly rebuilt but totally stock blacktop can take the money and dyno their car. That would save so much fighting and bickering if this was to happen. I'd pay a dollar to see that.

For a dollar you can feed a starving child for a day. Or for one dollar you can contibute to the end of the fight over how much a stock 20v really makes. I can assure you, that one day that child will die. However your dollar spent on the dyno fund could bring peace to toyspeed for eternity. Which is really more important? I'll let you decide.

[cogent]

im very shortly getting a silvertop rebuilt (dropping it off this week). Im in wellington, so would have no problem with TS chipping in a bit for a dyno run when its done

its going into an aw11, 2.5" exhaust with a resonator and muffler would really be the only mods.

[RedMist]

Here's an idea. I think to save the pax romania around here, we need to set up the 'Stock 20v dyno fund.' Everybody can chip in like a dollar or something, and the first person to put their hand up who has either a freshly rebuilt but totally stock silvertop or a freshly rebuilt but totally stock blacktop can take the money and dyno their car. That would save so much fighting and bickering if this was to happen. I'd pay a dollar to see that.

For a dollar you can feed a starving child for a day. Or for one dollar you can contibute to the end of the fight over how much a stock 20v really makes. I can assure you, that one day that child will die. However your dollar spent on the dyno fund could bring peace to toyspeed for eternity. Which is really more important? I'll let you decide.

My stock silvertops, with Link LEM3 ECU's developed 123 and 126hp at the wheels on a dynojet.
My stock Blacktop with a Link LEM4 developed 132hp at the wheels on the same dynojet.
All used engines with an average of 70k on the clock.
They wont be much, if any above what a stock 20 valve will produce.

[Mr Revhead]

it seems you can get some good gains from tuning alone on silvertops.
eg 12% on mine with just a plug in ecu change.
back to back dyno tested, stock ecu and SARD ecu.

so i reckon it would be very interesting to have a good play with a tunable ECU on one

[Defective]

it seems you can get some good gains from tuning alone on silvertops.
eg 12% on mine with just a plug in ecu change.
back to back dyno tested, stock ecu and SARD ecu.

so i reckon it would be very interesting to have a good play with a tunable ECU on one

similar gains on a blacktop?

[Mr Revhead]

i doubt it

[AceSniper]

Link + alot of timming on a blacktop = damnnnn

[Mr Revhead]

have you tried it? what kind of difference?


funny that you say a lot of timing.... when they seem to run better on our fuel when you knock 2 deg off the stock settings.

maybe the stock knock sensor is too cautious and retards it when it doesnt really need it?

[Lith]

My stock silvertops, with Link LEM3 ECU's developed 123 and 126hp at the wheels on a dynojet.
My stock Blacktop with a Link LEM4 developed 132hp at the wheels on the same dynojet. All used engines with an average of 70k on the clock.
They wont be much, if any above what a stock 20 valve will produce.

I think people are referring to the whole factory package - including car. For those power figures, not to mention the fact you refer to the ECU its running not being factory.... you are just talking about what the motor itself can make. When people talk stock they normally mean the whole car.

What you say is very valid though - when I hear "20v" I think of the motor itself, if its a potentially potent unit but is just strangled by the nature of its home then the motor IS actually still good. ~100kw @ wheels in a tractable reliable 1600cc NA car is nothing to be sneezed at.

[RedMist]

I think people are referring to the whole factory package - including car. For those power figures, not to mention the fact you refer to the ECU its running not being factory.... you are just talking about what the motor itself can make. When people talk stock they normally mean the whole car.

What you say is very valid though - when I hear "20v" I think of the motor itself, if its a potentially potent unit but is just strangled by the nature of its home then the motor IS actually still good. ~100kw @ wheels in a tractable reliable 1600cc NA car is nothing to be sneezed at.

Actually good point. I was running it through a 9 inch ford pattern diff and Porsche 930 CV's at a reasonable level of articulation. So considerably more drive line losses than your average FWD.
From what I have read, low 120's seem about right for a stock silvertop. With high 120's low 130's for a blacktop. Still, fully depends on the dyno, condition of the engine, ect.

[Lith]

True... I'm guessing Dynojets are quite a high reading dyno??? On the hub dynos I'm used to running on - your average AE101 would be doing really well to make over 120hp @ FRONT wheels, and AE111 lucky to do over 130. Thats with your usual barrage of boltons - not stock.

[Mr Revhead]

iv found that the "usual barrage" ie pod filter, silly exhaut/fartcan
actually looses power in a lot of cases