Engine suggestions

[MikeMan]

SR20VE can make 200+ without to many issues.

BEAMS is all good

F20C from S2000 would be good but VERY expensive.

The bike engine would require VERY high weight discapline (SP?) to get it light enough for the torque to do the job IMHO.

The 2.3L MZ-R from the Mazda 6 is supposed to be a good engine.

ZETEC/Duratec HE are both options at that power level.

4G92/3 MIVEC 1800cc Mitsi is another option, or a 6A12 MIVEC.

Pug 306 S16/GTI-6/GTI-180 would be different.

[Mr Revhead]

the big thing against the 3sge tezza moter, and the 2zzge, apart from cost. would be height.

weight is something you shoulc consider carefully due the overall weight of the car, however the mid engine configuration will help cancel some of the effect.

i think mcgregor went with the mazda due to cost and availibility. i was working with them a while ago on a toyota solution, but at the end of the day the mx5 combo was such good value for money.

[summin]

Mate of mine and his old man built a Fraser a few years ago with a 3sge pulled out of a $500 crashed celica, mated it up to a either t or w series box (from memory, this was bout 3-4 years ago now...) and a Ford LSD rear end

Had some light headwork done, mild cams, twin webbers, decent tuned lenght extractors etc... Quite easily out ran some very fast cars round puke

Really well balanced car, great on road and track (We flatted together and used to take it to work almost every day...)

I wouldnt want one with much more power, that thing was very scary is it is, not much between you and powerpoles (ask the guy who bought it off him...RIP little car )

Fun though

[Adamal]

I think it comes down to this....

How big is your wallet?

[Mr Revhead]

or how big are your balls....

[nz_climber]

Thanks for the suggestions guys, keep them coming..

yeah cost is a big factor, not really sure yet, but would like engine box and loom etc to come $3-4k? beams be about that? 2zz and honda engines getting more expensive from what i have seen.

as for beams being tall, i am working on that, getting some dimensions from Mcgregor, also can go dry sump to shorten it a bit.. but that adds to cost again..

How easy is a pre beams 3sg to convert to RWD (oil problems with it standing up straight) say 95-98(gen4?) then spend money saved on upgrades (which could be done over time)

Mr Revhead, would be interested in hear what work you did with them, and feed back etc?

thanks

[Mr Revhead]

basicly all i was doing was trying to sort a supply of w5# bits to make it viable to run 3sge/4age and w/t boxes.

didnt get very far as the aforementioned mazda pacakge was just too good.


as much as id like to see a toyota engine in it, i reckon the mx5 bits would be the way to go.

[fangsport]

20B NA tuned haha

funny you should say that!!
on a serious note, a guy on the club committee had a standard 12A in his Chevron, but is going to a mild ported 13b for scaring himself.

[Loudtoy]

Question how much will the chevron without motor weigh in at?? I would suggest that the bike motor - all the beams powered cars i have been in haven't really impressed me all that much.
I say if it's around 600 without motor and box go with bike bits and special reverse gear setup wich i thing you can get from quaife - ask the star car guys who supplys theres. if its closer to 800 without motor perhaps a look at the 1800's that power the celica's would be a good idea altho expensive when you can pick up a 1300 bike motor and box and electrics for about 4k then the quaife reversing unit for another 2 and jobs right, 160 odd rwhp huge redline + if you ever want to figure out what a high speed forklift would handel like you have 6 reverse gears

[nz_climber]

basicly all i was doing was trying to sort a supply of w5# bits to make it viable to run 3sge/4age and w/t boxes.

didnt get very far as the aforementioned mazda pacakge was just too good.


as much as id like to see a toyota engine in it, i reckon the mx5 bits would be the way to go.

ahh ok true, I wouldn't mind the mazda but I don't know anything about them, and also would like abit more power as 135hp at the crank isn't stunning out of a 1.8, i probably get the same out of my 30yo 18RG

[fangsport]

Question how much will the chevron without motor weigh in at?? I would suggest that the bike motor - all the beams powered cars i have been in haven't really impressed me all that much.
I say if it's around 600 without motor and box go with bike bits and special reverse gear setup wich i thing you can get from quaife - ask the star car guys who supplys theres. if its closer to 800 without motor perhaps a look at the 1800's that power the celica's would be a good idea altho expensive when you can pick up a 1300 bike motor and box and electrics for about 4k then the quaife reversing unit for another 2 and jobs right, 160 odd rwhp huge redline + if you ever want to figure out what a high speed forklift would handel like you have 6 reverse gears

have you seen Tony McConachy's Busa KP rallycar? seems to have surprising amounts of torque and a redline that sounds like an F1 car. a kp would be heavier than most kitcars.

[nz_climber]

hmm.. bike engine is sounding good.. just worried about torque etc, as the car would be about 600kg.. the kit come for a ford sierra IRS rear end, would the bike engine push that ok? drive train loses? clutch upto that? I also know nothing about bikes, but I assume the engine would be light and bring down overall weight.

[fangsport]

just the Sierra head,hubs and axles , or the whole subframe?

[Loudtoy]

Question how much will the chevron without motor weigh in at?? I would suggest the bike motor - all the beams powered cars i have been in haven't really impressed me all that much.
I say if it's around 600 without motor and box go with bike bits and special reverse gear setup wich i thing you can get from quaife - ask the star car guys who supplys theres. if its closer to 800 without motor perhaps a look at the 1800's that power the celica's would be a good idea altho expensive when you can pick up a 1300 bike motor and box and electrics for about 4k then the quaife reversing unit for another 2 and jobs right, 160 odd rwhp huge redline + if you ever want to figure out what a high speed forklift would handel like you have 6 reverse gears

have you seen Tony McConachy's Busa KP rallycar? seems to have surprising amounts of torque and a redline that sounds like an F1 car. a kp would be heavier than most kitcars.

Yup and i read somewhere that it weighed 880 with motor and box. Considering the busa's weigh around 220 wet i guess the motor/box combo is around 160kg but i think with them to use the standard computer you have to run there speedo and rev counter. Still think the bike motor is the way to go if you ask me, that kp is insane - nothing quite like the sound of 13000rpm coming towards you sideways then going away at aproximately the same rpm on opposite lock still
Oh clutch's seem to be pretty good in standard form and you'l probably want to find a real low, like 5.x, ratio diff cos they geared really high standard, another thing is that you will find aftermarket parts aplently for them, all sorts of oversize pistons, bore kits the works - and with a bit of work you could probably get 200 rwhp out of it, just be a little stressed

BTW i never said they had an issue with torque altho i did imply it i guess

[Volodkovich]

hayabusa engine and boxes weigh a lot less than that - try between 80 and 90kg.

I wouldn't go with one in a car that weighs over 600kg though. I would be suprised if a lotus7 style kit car weighs that? Most of the english ones clock in around 450-500 with bike engines. Unless the car you are talking about is a bit more beefy.

Weight is a big problem for bike powered cars. Start going over the intended weight of bike plus two riders (380kg for gsxr1300) and you'll wish you had gone for a motor with more torque and a car clutch and gearbox...

[fangsport]

Weight is a big problem for bike powered cars. Start going over the intended weight of bike plus two riders (380kg for gsxr1300) and you'll wish you had gone for a motor with more torque and a car clutch and gearbox...

is Tony M aware of this? jump on utube and search for 'hayabusa starlet', and then try and tell us they won't work??? the poms have been fitting to anything and everything they can, unless the MSA bans them.

[Volodkovich]

not saying they wont work, read what i said. Simply saying they might not be the number 1 choice.

[matt dunn]

not saying they wont work, read what i said. Simply saying they might not be the number 1 choice.

And i'm sure they're real easy to mate to a conventional driveshaft?

[Volodkovich]

Dont think mating them to a conventional drivesahft is too much of an issue, though i havent really looked into that aspect as my area of interest has been mid-mount chain drive.

I would assume they would just use a yoke that uses the spline where the output sprocket of the gearbox normally is.

[Loudtoy]

not saying they wont work, read what i said. Simply saying they might not be the number 1 choice.

And i'm sure they're real easy to mate to a conventional driveshaft?

That quaife unit i was talking about makes it pretty easy as from what i've seen you can get them with variety of output configurations altho i do believe that it is offset from the center somewhat.