Clarification for cert requirements

[Mr.Phreak]

you really think jo blog wofs stations going give a rats buttocks if you swap one sh*t single cam carb engine for another single cam carb engine.

If they're due an audit, then yes.

And it's not only for wofs.....some of us actually have insurance

[mr30%jr]

yea sure if you put a 4agze in a ke70 of course its going to look out of place even a 4age for that mater

also id love see an an insurance assessor who could tell a 3a and 4k apart

[1e-pwr]

quite being pawns to the rules.

you really think jo blog wofs stations going give a rats buttocks if you swap one sh*t single cam carb engine for another single cam carb engine.

just go buy logic, if its safe, if you increase the power increase the brakes.

people need to stop paying 400 dollars for a cert and support local wof places

STOP GOING TO LTSA PLACES!

Most do care, and they care because its the rules. If they get caught they can loose theyre authority to give WOFs and for many places (not just LTSA shops) WOFs comprise a decent part of the business income and therefore no WOFs = goodbye business. I know this because my dad gives WOFs, and although hed be the first to argue the stupidity of some of the rules, he can get in the shit for something like 'not noticing an engine conversion', especially if the car ends up hurting someone. If you have an interest in modifying and working on cars I think you should be prepared to cop the money for a cert, if for no other reason than it also protects you in the event that you hurt someone and wind up in court. Its also noteworthy that were pretty lucky in NZ compared to many other countries (eg. Aussie) since despite all the bullshit in the media about boy racers and their modified cars sending us to hell in a hand basket, we are actually still allowed to build stupidly over powered death machine fun-mobiles - as long as it is within the specs of those specified by an engineer...

In saying that I think I would draw the line at certing after replacing 3k/4k with a 5k, mainly cause (as you stated) replacing one carby shitbox with another isnt going to raise many eyebrows, but changing between families of engines I think its worth spending the money...

[mr30%jr]

i disagree in some of what you are saying, ie 400 dollars is alot of money for a "wof"

i agree 100% with things like drivetrain swaps and suspension mods, they can make a car bloody dangerous if not done right.

there needs to be a line drawn between safe harmless engine conversion and near on race car which needs to be well checked over.

for example:

i would be full prepared to cert a 3sgte into an aw11, things like engine mounts welded to the chassis rail need to be cut off and rewelded.

i dont think however using boltable components say, putting a 4age into an ae85 using all the right bits should be a cert.

All in all if you do work on your car and your not even confident enough to say its safe, dont fricken do it and dont drive that car.

i think theres a place for the cert but i think its just got way out of hand

[Leon]

Certs exist, because people are too bloody thick to do stuff properly. If they didn't exist, there would be big block Falcons running brakes the size of a teacup, 4AGTE Starlets running standard Starlet brakes and drums on the back, with pigeon poop welding holding it together. Self created suspension arms made by monkeys. Rotary Mazda Bongo vans sitting on the bump stops etc.

I've seen some of the garbage people turn up to the race track with (and then get to put the POS car back on the trailer and take it home again).

People are stupid. Too stupid to be trusted. End of story.

[Bling]

hahahahaha good call there Leon

Its so true though its scary

[fuel]

I think $400 is a small price to pay to ensure your modifications are completely safe, that you wont have problems getting a WOF or when pulled up by the cops etc.

[rolla_fxgt]

Along the lines of what Leon and others are saying, the rules are there for very good reasons, if you don't want to do it properly then don't do it, if you do you run the risk of ruining it for everyone else who did it right.

And yes unfortunately rules have to be created to cater for the dumbest level of intelligence that is still human, its a sad fact of life

[FXGTV]

Certs exist, because people are too bloody thick to do stuff properly. If they didn't exist, there would be big block Falcons running brakes the size of a teacup, 4AGTE Starlets running standard Starlet brakes and drums on the back, with pigeon poop welding holding it together. Self created suspension arms made by monkeys. Rotary Mazda Bongo vans sitting on the bump stops etc.

I've seen some of the garbage people turn up to the race track with (and then get to put the POS car back on the trailer and take it home again).

People are stupid. Too stupid to be trusted. End of story.

You just described half the cars at the riverbank in the Hutt on the Thursday night

[Lloyd]

As said, if you do the dodgy and somewhere puts a warrant on it then that person is can lose their authority, the workplace can lose its authority, if an accident happens the person who put the warrant on can be up on very serious charges.

As soon as you open it up to people thinking they're competent to do their own work and not having an independent person checking it then you're asking for trouble. And as soon as someones dodgy brake upgrade goes wrong and kills someone then you're going to have people saying you need certs for any modifications, which is basically where we are now

The $400 is only a one off cost anyway (assuming you're not continuously changing bits and pieces). If you're going to the extent of changing an engine, brakes, fuel system or whatever then $400 is bugger all.

The annoying thing about it is if you're doing something minor that needs a cert then its the same cost regardless. And $400 is a bit steep if you want spacers certed or something like that.

[B1NZ]

The annoying thing about it is if you're doing something minor that needs a cert then its the same cost regardless. And $400 is a bit steep if you want spacers certed or something like that.

I agree, I'm planning to do all my mods that need certing all at the same time but I will still probably have to get another cert plate if I change my mind down the road

There should be a $400 first up fee then maybe $50 to add things or just the certifiers labour amount

[Py7h0n]

I completely agree on the recertification side of things. $400 again is a huge amount of money to pay. I am currently looking at having to do this due to a transmission swap.

[1e-pwr]

Yeah that part of it is crap indeed. Also, I think it results in more heavily modified cars on the road, since, at least with my cars, I end up modifying everything under the sun with the false economy that I am somehow saving money in doing so The fresh mods fresh cert rule is one that I think you could only ever argue is designed to send money to certifiers and whatever stupid fee that land transport takes...

[Lurkin]

It seems the underlying question here is whether they can justify the price of a cert - rather than whether a cert is a good idea or not.

toys are no good to us when we are dead or in prison!

perhaps the price is to stop system 'clogging' ie if the service was free perhaps all of those cars from the riverbank would be lining up outside ---> even though they are just waiting to be declined with the old cuttys & tin can exhausts?

Frankly the first conviction a school mate was a hit & run - bald tyres, cut springs etc etc.

Has anyone ever asked for a breakdown of the $400 cost for what it is actually for?

[1e-pwr]

Dunno, but the new AFR tests add an extra $50 on top (at least at the certifier I went to). I would suspect that it least half of the total cost is government admin bullshit passed on by the certifier... I guess even if you didnt have to get a fresh cert everytime you wanted to add something youd still need a new plate stamped and thatd probably comprise a decent proportion of that cost... The LVVTA has a forum (http://lvvta.proboards81.com/index.cgi), maybe we should fire some of these questions at them... In saying that I joined last year and it took 1 month for someone to check their email and approve my account - might be better now, although doesnt seem to be much action on there...

[Leon]

NZTA fee is about $50 or so I think. I'll check that one for you though, as I should be able to confirm an actual figure there, rather than have people pulling a number out of their backside (as I just did in my first words of this post).

[Leon]

whatever stupid fee that land transport takes...

Ok, found it. The stupid fee NZTA takes is ~ $30.

[Mr. Mainstream]

i know that my BFMR 323 got through about 3-4 WOFs with no-one saying a word about the 1800 BPT until ione guy said "hey! ive never seen a 323 with a engine mounted this low in the bay" i just ooo'ed and aaa'ed pointing the 4wd badge and said it was rally spec straight through

[1e-pwr]

Ok, found it. The stupid fee NZTA takes is ~ $30.

Hmmm, not much at all then. I guess it probably costs a bit to become a certifier... but errrr, someone is making money