Schedule A and fuel lines?

[Grrrrrrr!]

Wouldnt that rule out the use of oil to lubricate the engine, as its not an approved fuel?
Might be a dumb question, but thought I'd put it out there.

Oil is specifically allowed

(5) Additives or blends:Unless otherwise approved, additives of any kind or specification
or chemical description or composition shall not beadded to the fuel nor may a blend of
two or more fuels be used. The only approved additives are:
(a)Lubricating oil for rotary and two stroke engines,and
(b)Commercially available lead substitutes for use with unleaded fuels in strict
accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions.

[Adoom]

And your blend of E85 and petrol isn't a "commercially avaiable blend" either.

True

If you are just out to have fun on the track and aren't up in the top end of the field/class it might not be an issue, but if you enter anything where points/prizes are at stake somebody will bitch and moan sooner or later.

I'm just there to have fun and get times to beat myself. Never entered enough stuff to get any points.

[gt4dude]

what i want to know is why you're injecting E85 through a coolingmist/AEM type system?

to get any power gains out of that you have to lean out the fuel coming from your injectors, wouldn't it be better to just tune your injectors to run the correct amount of E85 from your gas tank?

i wouldn't trust such a crude system to provide any part of the fuelling, as failure will result in instant detonation totally outside of the ecu's control.

water injection isn't there to be part of the tune, its just there to provide a little spray to suppress knock at high loads/heat on a knife edge tune for extended amounts of time

[DexGT]

and water is not an approved fuel.

I don't understand why fuel regs should apply to water as it isn't a fuel at all .
I also don't understand why you can use E85 , and you can use 98 , but you can't inject them both at the same time ?.
my understanding of the reasoning of the rule in the manual is they can't test a mix with the equipment they have ie specific gravity , but surely if you can test both fuels you are injecting into the motor as legal use fuels in their respective tanks in the car, what is the issue ?

[Leon]

Difficulty to enforce / test the fuel mix I guess.

Because some cunning person would then rig up a three fuel source mix, with the third one being some illegal jungle juice, and be counting on the difficulty to test the mix.

When I had the conversation about water injection many years ago, it was legal then, working on the theory that water is in fact not a fuel source. That was a lot of years ago though.

[DexGT]

Difficulty to enforce / test the fuel mix I guess.

Because some cunning person would then rig up a three fuel source mix, with the third one being some illegal jungle juice, and be counting on the difficulty to test the mix.

The thing is thou , they will be doing it now if their so inclined to hide tanks etc , and theres no way to test what is actually going into the motor currently as far as i'm aware.
I'm talking about a clear two tank system that you can test as they do now ie samples from the tanks. Both tanks fuel would meet the spec as set by MSNZ as a legal fuel .

[Adoom]

what i want to know is why you're injecting E85 through a coolingmist/AEM type system?

Because it was there. "This water is doing nothing. Lets see what happens if..."

to get any power gains out of that you have to lean out the fuel coming from your injectors,

Yes, we did. Made 11% more power

wouldn't it be better to just tune your injectors to run the correct amount of E85 from your gas tank?

E85 is bloody expensive to run as the primary fuel. When used like this, you use only a few litres per tank of 98/95

i wouldn't trust such a crude system to provide any part of the fuelling, as failure will result in instant detonation totally outside of the ecu's control.

It sure does, that it why we aren't using it and replacing the WI system with an injector and separate fuel pump/regulator/tank.

water injection isn't there to be part of the tune, its just there to provide a little spray to suppress knock at high loads/heat on a knife edge tune for extended amounts of time

[gt4dude]

sounds like somethings wrong if u gained 11% power by spraying e85 over the top of an already tuned motor,

did you add ignition timing and back off the fuelling? what kinda ecu is it? -- i ask because one possible scenario is a factory ecu and a blocked fuel filter/injectors, and the ecu just re-adding ignition timing that normally caused it to knock

so are you telling me anyone can simply tap a spray nozzle into their cold pipe, and pump a bit of vodka in and get amazing horsepower that you can feel? lol

f*ck drinking this new years, im gonna add instant hp to my car

[Adoom]

sounds like somethings wrong if u gained 11% power by spraying e85 over the top of an already tuned motor,

did you add ignition timing and back off the fuelling? what kinda ecu is it? -- i ask because one possible scenario is a factory ecu and a blocked fuel filter/injectors, and the ecu just re-adding ignition timing that normally caused it to knock

so are you telling me anyone can simply tap a spray nozzle into their cold pipe, and pump a bit of vodka in and get amazing horsepower that you can feel? lol

f*ck drinking this new years, im gonna add instant hp to my car

Are you trollin!?

Just adding E85 over the top of your normal fuel will probably give you LESS power.

It's a Link G4.

YES, fuel was pulled back from the normal injectors.
No they are not blocked
The ignition timing was increased.

All of this was done on a Dyno.

Note that the scale on these graphs is not the same.

Here is the normal tune. High and low boost.



Here is the tune for when the E85 injection is running, on the same high and low boost.

[gt4dude]

makes sense now, just sounded a bit hori the way you were talkin about it so i thought up 2222222 geeeeeee

[Flannelman]

as of intrest, what were the before E85 and after E85 intake temps?

[Adoom]

as of intrest, what were the before E85 and after E85 intake temps?

I did not see them myself. But Aaron told me that the E85 dropped the intake temp by about 10 degrees.
AFAIK on low boost, the intake temp went down to 9 degrees.
On high boost it goes down to around 20. My turbo is on the small side, so it is becoming less efficient at high boost and the intake temp is higher.
A graph would be nice....

I have already started modifying the IC piping to mount an injector instead of the WI jet. So I cannot just try it and use the datalogging. Not that I would want to, the jet was too unreliable.