20 Valves really that bad?

[Loudtoy]

LMAO at the youtube videos, love to see that with my own eyes here in NZ, never seen a bZR keep up with an EK or EG Sir

Well i have personally seen one doing it - oh actually make that 2, b1nz's but thats a bvz or something not quite a bzr and i'm pretty sure although i could be wrong robodisco's one has done it as well.
Just to throw a spaner in the works my old 101 used to do it so long as the civic in quesiton only had the same mods as my car - it used to upset quite a few of the driver and make other ek and eg drivers laugh at there counterparts and line me up for grudge race's where afterwards there was more than 1 i told you so in the pits

[Mr Revhead]

what years are ek and eg?

B1s was a BZ-V

[AceSniper]

ek... eg... = eek egg?
Stock on stock blacktop > b16
same $$ spent on mods b16>blacktop

me thinks....

[Loudtoy]

what years are ek and eg?

B1s was a BZ-V

Well, i was close, right numbr and denominaiton of letters. I'm pretty sure eg's were 92-95 and ek's 95-7 although i'm probably wrong i don't know my honda's very well. Some one will tell you exactly and flame me in the process no doubt

[Lith]

ek... eg... = eek egg?
Stock on stock blacktop > b16
same $$ spent on mods b16>blacktop

Depends on whether you mean on the road or on the dyno...

B16A1s and B16A2s respectively average about 25% more power than Silvertop and Blacktop motors stock for stock, but the on the road performance seems to be MUCH closer than the power figures would suggest. Torque wins races I guess, and neither have a great torque advantage over the other.

[Mr Revhead]

25%

thats rather a lot more than real world experience suugests....

[bOi]

Im loving this thread

[bOi]

ek... eg... = eek egg?
Stock on stock blacktop > b16
same $$ spent on mods b16>blacktop

me thinks....

me thinks similarly too.. BT are damn expensive and hardly impossible to find performance parts for..not as readily or widely available as civics..

my BT's slow.. but it gives me the vibe.. and imaginary aura..

[Mr Revhead]

speaking of $$ for blacktops....

had to find one yesterday for a workshop job....

cheapest i could find was $1000.
our cost, plus gst and freight.... no manifolds

[Lith]

25%

thats rather a lot more than real world experience suugests....

If you read what I said - then you'd see I made the same observation. A lot of it will be that the gains are probably only over the last few hundred odd RPM, so its not a 25% increase in area-beneath-the-curve. Take a bone stock silvertop to Chequered Flag and I bet you'll run ~80fwkw +/- 3. Do the same with a B16A1 and you'll run ~101fwkw +/ 1 or 2. Same goes for blacktops and B16A2s, adding about 6kw to each.

Anything beyond that, you'll have to argue with the dynos that consistantly read those power differences between the cars - they may or may not lie, I just report what I've seen regularly enough to feel confident in quoting.

[Mr Revhead]

got any of those b16 dyno plots?

[Lith]

A local - and you get to see the stages of basic boltons:

http://da8integra.orcon.net.nz/techdata/dyno_runs.html

Also watch High Octane, the stock dyno run for "Banzai" was ~107fwkw.

Pizzaboy from here I'm pretty made ~101fwkw as well, and Mick from NZhondas made around that on his stock DA too.... I'm pretty sure thats the combo?

Mick got intake, headers and exhaust on his B16A1 and got a V-AFC dyno tune - the 101fwkw again was a base stock run:

http://rebel.net.nz/gallery/dynotune

Or an old dyno day results (oh yeah, Fevah is one of the many to crack 101kw @ wheels with a stock B16A1):

http://nzhondas.com/phpBB2/wellington-dyno-day-results-vtu35.html?highlight=dyno+da6

Its pretty hard to find a completely stock plot, people don't tend to brag as much about them - much like you don't have scores of stock 20v plots around.

[Defective]

i know when i had my DA6 integra i never once lost to any levin except supercharged ones, and even those i was reeling them in on the top end, they just had far more snot of the line.

my teggy was doing flat 15's on the 1/4, which is by no means quick at all, but obviously quicker than the levins at the time.

weird thing is, my trueno feels slow as compared to my old teggy, but it kept level with a DA8 pulling onto the motorway the other night.

of course the da8 may not have been a vtec one, but im pretty sure it was an xsi, so should have been.

i think theres just good and bad examples of each....


no laws were broken of course......

[Voyeur]

I must be missing something my 96 20v bt. totally dominates my wifes 99 civic sir B16A2

[~SlideWays~]

I must be missing something my 96 20v bt. totally dominates my wifes 99 civic sir B16A2

Can your wife drive?

[Mr Revhead]

yeah..... the 1600s are so close to each other that its down to the driver

[Mr Revhead]

whats a V-AFC do? vtec and fuel and air mix?
interesting, as i reckon its the stock tune of the silvertop thats its biggest let down

http://rebel.net.nz/gallery/dynotune/aaf?full=1
thats an interesting dyno plot.
as you were mentioning before.... torque
the b16 is making a lot more peak power, but the 20v kills it for midrange.
as you said area under the curve.
however i dont know how far from stock that curve is, its possible hes muffed something to make it so peaky

[Voyeur]

1:32 round manfield my car, 1:42 in hers.
Yea i think she can drive

[Lith]

1:32 round manfield my car, 1:42 in hers.
Yea i think she can drive

1:42 is absolutely terrible for an EK Civic around Manfeild!!!

Warrick - V-AFC just tricks the factory ECU into running richer or leaner, its a bit of a rough way of doing it but definitely can get gains. I've wondered about the comparative torque between two, can you post a plot from the same dyno of a 20v demonstrating the extra torque?

Its pretty surprising, because the B16As and 20vs are supposed to make peak power at the same revs - and given that power is a result of torque and RPM, its hard not to imagine that the B16A has to be generating more torque in the same rev range to generate that much more power.

[Mr Revhead]

any plots i have, will be saved on my dead laptop
if i have any.... lets ask google

i just recall from my dyno runs (on a totally different dyno)
that the curves were a lot fatter from 3500-4000.
ie not a 45 deg angle like that one.
and peak torque was around 4500. with everything tailing off around 6400ish, rather than peaking