New E85 Fuel

[rodstr]

Probably could have missed reading a post about this but is this fuel ok on Japanese cars? I thought there were something wrong with E10?

its being launched by Gull

http://www.carandsuv.co.nz/news/bio-eth ... rough-gull

[matt dunn]

Only factory cars in NZ that will run on it are the latest model Holden Commodore.

All other cars will either not run or will cause severe engine damage.

No japanese imports will run on it yet.


And it is E85 they have released.

[iOnic]

tbh I can't see that going very far. It costs significantly more per liter than petrol and provides you with less economy...that and most cars can't use it anyway.

[rollaholic]

its pretty popular with drag cars and such in aus, perhaps we'll see a bit of a market with the same people here.

edit - it costs more per liter than petrol? thats madness

[Kiwi-Corolla]

Gull Takanini up here in Auckland released E10 a while ago and I fuelled up there as I normally did and only noticed the new sign when I went to hang the bowser back up. Curious, I dicided to give it a go (not that I had much choice anyway ). By the end of the first day I had already seen a noticeable drop in my fuel mileage and vowed never to use that gas station or ethanol fuel again. That's the first and only one I've come across so far with E10.

I can't even imagine how poor the fuel economy would be on E85. Sure, the cars that use them are very fuel efficient and are designed for it, but when the cost is the same as regular 91 for E10 or a whopping 15-cents per litre more for E85, it just doesn't seem worth it, unless you're a tree-hugging hippy or have stacks of cash.

I can't see why they even decided to bring it out onto the market over here right now since there is such low demand for it due to the very small amount of vehicles that can actually use E85. All I can see happening is a lot of misinformed people filling up their older cars with E85 and then blowing their engine on the way home. It's all just a big marketing ploy if you ask me, and I can't see it taking off for years and years down the track.

[Mr Revhead]

I was of the impression that all fuels in nz are now e10

but yes, alcohol fuel is a con. It isn't cheaper, and you need more of it.

[dnalunchie]

They tested it on an SS commodore a few weeks back in an issue of "Motor" I think.

There pages of results but the general gist of it was that it used MORE fuel but made slightly more power.

[Malcolm]

you will always use more fuel with ethanol blends, as per my posts in this thread: viewtopic.php?t=83270

An E85 blend will require approximately 50% fuel to be combusted than regular petrol to produce the same amount of energy.

[molex]

Of course it's going to use more, it's a far less energy dense fuel. It does have some other sweet benefits though...

Your pistons look like new, even after a couple of tanks of ethanol it cleans away all of the carbon buildup.

It's got mega detonation resistance - partially due to increased octane rating (varies) but also due to the extreme cooling effect.

It runs cold. Similar to methanol powered drag cars that run no intercooler or radiator the atomised ethanol sucks up a lot of heat. You'll still need a radiator obviously, but it definitely won't be working as hard. Intercooling is not as neccessary, another ethanol injector upstream can work exceptionally well on cooling intake charge.

If your engine is set up to take advantage of it, it's awesome. If not - you'll run disasterously lean and break something. Somebody needs to build a 16:1 NA 4age to take advantage of this stuff!

[Mr Revhead]

In the real world we do not want it.
Seeing as they cost of fuel is not dropping with more alcohol, reduced economy is going to really suck as fuel rises.

[Mr Ree]

I dont think its going to use anywhere near 50% more than regular PULP.

The general consensus seems to be 25 to 30 percent more from everyone I speak to who runs it.

At the end of the day, if you own a turbo charged vehicle, this is liquid gold.

It would be nice if it was cheaper than PULP like it is in the states, and over the ditch but you cant have your cake and eat it too. Its cheaper than race gas but achieves very similar results due to its higher octane and det prevention so its not toooooo bad, just dont look at using it in your daily.

But for a performance car or track car, Big pump, big injectors, more Boost, more timing, no detonation = Happy engine and driver, regardless of how much fuel is burned.

[gt4dude]

If your setup runs rich on petrol, then a few drops of this stuff will be good

[Lith]

you will always use more fuel with ethanol blends, as per my posts in this thread: viewtopic.php?t=83270

An E85 blend will require approximately 50% fuel to be combusted than regular petrol to produce the same amount of energy.

50% more now?? Keeps getting bigger. more like 30-40% depending on engine load for the amount of airflow, and you make more power for that amount of air. For a weekend car this stuff would be fine, for a track car it will be definitely more expensive - but if you are aiming for the same power on a turbocharged one then you can run less boost for the same power level, and the whole setup ends up working less hard. Engine temps definitely are noticeably happier on E85 too.

[Mr Revhead]

Any increase sux. We really should be protesting about this

[Malcolm]

you will always use more fuel with ethanol blends, as per my posts in this thread: viewtopic.php?t=83270

An E85 blend will require approximately 50% fuel to be combusted than regular petrol to produce the same amount of energy.

50% more now?? Keeps getting bigger. more like 30-40% depending on engine load for the amount of airflow, and you make more power for that amount of air. For a weekend car this stuff would be fine, for a track car it will be definitely more expensive - but if you are aiming for the same power on a turbocharged one then you can run less boost for the same power level, and the whole setup ends up working less hard. Engine temps definitely are noticeably happier on E85 too.

It doesn't keep changing, it depends on what direction you go. 1.5L is 50% more than 1L. 1L is 33% less than 1.5L

In the other thread I said that there is around 30-35% less energy per litre in E85, so to put numbers on it - if the amount of energy in 1L of petrol is 1 (arbitrary, no units) then the amount in 1L of E85 is about 0.65-0.7, so to get up to an energy of 1 you need about .3-.35 extra energy, which is roughly 0.5L or 50% extra.

I'm not attempting to argue pros or cons of using either fuel, just stating the facts regarding fuel usage for a typical vehicle - if the price of this fuel is higher it's going to cost a shitload more to operate your car on E85 than on regular petrol.

[Malcolm]

Any increase sux. We really should be protesting about this

Start a facebook campaign. Maybe we can all change our profile pictures to images of petrol pumps or something

[Mr Ree]

I'm not attempting to argue pros or cons of using either fuel, just stating the facts regarding fuel usage for a typical vehicle - if the price of this fuel is higher it's going to cost a shitload more to operate your car on E85 than on regular petrol.

Thats a trade off many performance car owners would be willing to make though. Me being one of them

It just doesnt make sense for mum n dad commuters to use it as there is no real world benefit, apart from cleaner emissions.

[RH9]

Im always one for more HP but when its gonna mean the possibility of an upgraded fuel system to take advantage of it and i'll lose fuel economy it just doesnt appeal anymore.

If I was drag racing or dyno racing I would use it tho.

[Lith]

Track racing if you could afford the fuel system and fuel would be perfect on a turbo car - more power with the same rev range and the same or less lag as before. I find it bewildering people will spend thousands of dollars on engine and cooling mods for a track/drag car but when E85 provides additional cooling, reliability and power advantages... it gets bagged.

Fact of the matter is most people whining about it would at most do enough events to be counted on one hand in a year, which they're likely to spend under $100 more on fuel for each of if they had a turbocharged car making reasonable power... and no one is forced to use the new fuel.

I don't see what there is to complain about having fuel which is there as an option to use which is way cheaper than C16, is comparable in power making potential and available from the pump and allowed in most classes of racing.

[Mr Revhead]

The issue is they are pushing to make it the mainstream fuel sold through pumps at every gas station.
It is not what we want to happen as running costs will go through the roof.

Having it at a few places instead of the old leaded race fuel would be fine.