when is a 3SGE not a 3SGE?

[RomanV]

Hi there.

I was wondering about the different generations of 3SGE engines.

Obviously, it would be nice to have one of the newer, more powerful BEAMS engines in an older car.

But im wondering, are they all compatible?

I mean are things like engine mounts, etc the same throughout the ages?

For example, would a 3SGE from an altezza be a straight bolt in to an old celica or an MR2? Seeing as you would be going from a north south to east west engine layout, are things.... different?

I suppose what I really want to know is:
Are celica/rav4/mr2/caldina 3SGE's interchangable?

And.... Are later model engines interchangable easily with older ones?

I would imagine you would need to bring the ECU and other things along too, of course.

I was thinking if I ever needed a new engine, one from a car like a RAV4 would probably be considerably LESS thrashed than one from an MR2.


Cheers.

*dreams of a Beams engine in my SW20*

[Dell'Orto]

Well the later model SW20's have Beams 3SGE's, so it wouldn't be that hard a conversion....the mounts etc might be the same, but the manifolds would need to be changed.

[celica_tommo]

don't all RAV4s have 3S-FEs?

[celica_tommo]

oh no... just checked... there is the odd one with a 3sge

[anthonym]

For example, would a 3SGE from an altezza be a straight bolt in to an old celica or an MR2? Seeing as you would be going from a north south to east west engine layout, are things.... different?

A dual VVTi Altezza motor will not go into an MR2 easily if at all, the cambelt/tensioner arrangment makes it impossible to fit the RHS engine mount. Even if you could get away with using the single VVTi tensioner, I suspect there would be clearance issues between the VVTi pully and the suspension turret. Not worth it IMO for a paltry 10ps that can easily be gained elsewhere. Indeed, for the NZ touring car Altezza's the VVTi was binned entirely and they were putting out 250hp without sweat.

I suppose what I really want to know is:
Are celica/rav4/mr2/caldina 3SGE's interchangable?

Again not easily, there are a number of (not insurmountable) differences between the FF and MR variants, you would need to find an MR2 RHS engine mount (it's specific to this engine), alternator bracket, etc.

And.... Are later model engines interchangable easily with older ones?
I would imagine you would need to bring the ECU and other things along too, of course.

If you can find an MR2 one you will need the entire contents of the engine bay and the loom from the passenger footwell back . IMO transplating an FF engine would be a costy exercise in pain.

[RomanV]

Aaah I see!

Thanks Nemesis.

[cr1mnl]

i managed to fit a sw20 mr2 3sgte in my car with factory mounts. it has standard a 3sfe which has the same mounts as a 3sge. you just have to mix and match with the right hand side mount on the mr2. i dont know much bout the later version 3sge's but i'm sure you would be able to adapt something to fit one in.

not really much help to your question but at least you know all gen2 engines are the same.

you could try ring parts imports in otahuhu as they know heaps bout what engines fit what

[Malcolm]

for what it's worth, nearly every engine from the "S" family (1S, 2S, 3S, 4S, 5S) seems to come from the same base casting meaning that despite different crank and piston sizes, the holes for things like engine mounts, bellhousing bolts, are the same, and even the heads are interchangable. However, although I haven't inspected a Beams 3SGE, I have heard that there are extra oil feeds running up the block for the Dual VVTi that means you cannot change the head onto a non VVTi block.
But basically any car that had an "S" engine should easily accept a different "S" engine, with the notable exception of going from transverse to longitudinal layout

[Mr Revhead]

the other thing to remeber about the altezza engine is that it sits upright... not leaned over like mr2/corona etc
so if wanting to fit one to an mr2 etc things like the sump, oil pickup and oil drains from the head will be affected.

[dodgy]

the blocks on all sw20's are the same.
the only late model block with different castings are on the altezza block.
in other words, if its turbo or got single vvti then its gonna fit.
the caldina single vvti head does fit onto the mr2 turbo (1990) block.
ive just ripped the 3sgte out of my mr2 and put in the caldina 3sge. all bolts up nicely.
also working on fitting the dual vvti engine (altezza) in the mr2 in the near future but will be a big job as nemesis stated.
will put up photos soon of our ae86 with the altezza in it.

Nemesis, your right about the 250hp in the nz tourers. My father looked at buying one when the went up for sale, but after talking to the engineer who worked on the car, we found out the engines were bog standard, just added oil cooler, better injection and managment, and a tuned exhaust. and the cars still weighed a heap!!

[dohca]

the other thing to remeber about the altezza engine is that it sits upright... not leaned over like mr2/corona etc
so if wanting to fit one to an mr2 etc things like the sump, oil pickup and oil drains from the head will be affected.

ive always wondered why they do that??

lean them over :S

[Akane]

better weight distribution for FF apparently. It was done in the Corolla WRC for that reason definitely tho.

[Celica RA45]

both the single and dual vvti blocks are different than the early 3s blocks both have the extra oil gallery that feeds the vvti and both have the outside vent as well ,also the single vvti is based on a gt4 block so some of the engine mounts on block are missing as well