2T 8valve EFI vs 4AGE 16valve redtop smallport

[Mr Revhead]

torque is EVERYTHING.

you gusy are mixing up extimated flywheel torque figures for atw figures that have been multiplied by the gearbox and diff

[fangsport]

torque is EVERYTHING.

AMEN to that.

Torque wins races, HP sells cars.

[AE85coupe]

standard redtop smallport (karls)

check out the torque line, says its at the wheels too

[suberimakuri]

my results were atw as you can see above..... and so were the other ones listed supposedly.

why would you be worried about low down torque in a race?

if it makes good power for a few thou rpm then just turn it through that.
If torque by itself was important, then i should be driving around at 3000rpm as per the dyno graph.

any engine has enough "low down torque" to drive round on the street.

[matt dunn]

viewtopic.php?t=34715

Have a read through that.

[suberimakuri]

meh, looking at peak power and comparing like that is a bit of a waste of time too, doesn't take into effect flywheels, or general tune.

i'm out.

[AE85coupe]

o.k i get the whole hp torque thing (if you really want to compare a car take it down the 1/4 mile)

but why is it karls redtop showed nearly 320nm at the wheels

when a 3t hyrbid which felt like it had more torque showed 162nm at the wheels?

both on supposedly reliable dynos

thats almost 160nm less torque

[wde_bdy]

Gear ratios and correction factors.

Dyno's are very rarely setup and operated the same, so are simply not comparable. What you need to do take the KW readings at set points (1000, 2000, 3000rpm etc) then calculate out the torque from their.

86kw at 10,000 rpm makes less torque than 86kw at 4000rpm. However if the gearing is setup to suit they can still make the same torque at the wheels.

Callum

[AE85coupe]

dam its tricky comparing these two cars then

still surely a stock 4age thats showing 86kw at the wheels at 7200rpm (i guess)

vs a fairly decently worked 3t hybrid showing 84kw at the wheels at 6000rpm

its not looking too good for the 3t?

[Malcolm]

I've got a suggestion - forget about the value of the torque given by the dyno.

Torque is varied through a drivetrain every time there is an form of reduction (gearbox, diff). This means the torque measured at the wheels will be several times what it really is at the engine.

Power, however, is constant, regardless of what reductions it might go through (not accounting for drivetrain losses).

I was simply showing that math to prove how inaccurate the torque figures given by dyno's are. It represents neither torque at the wheels nor torque at the engine, although I'm sure it's supposed to show torque at the engine, it is quite clearly very wrong. And no, there's nothing wrong with my calculations.

[wde_bdy]

Realistically the only way to compare is track times. It would all come down to setup, if your car is designed to match the powerband of the engine it will outperform one that isn't. Too many variables, unless you run same car, same driver etc. Then the gearing etc will suit one motor more than the other.

Callum

[suberimakuri]

ok, well 84kw worked 3t sounds like waste of time if stock 4age is more hp.

the torque compares between all our dyno results on torques dyno, and kiwi-re, and others that i have seen.

[NA Drifter]

well, imagine this... going up a hill (at 5th gear for example), rev drop due to not enough "power", so you drop the gear to 4th, or maybe even 3rd... so you will get more "power".
Are they really the "power" that make the car going up hill easy? or the torque?
You shift down the gear to change the gearbox ratio... and that will incress your torque!.. as you still have the same engine in the car.. same hp will be produced, not torque.
gearing change torque.... output

[cozmoid]

both on supposedly reliable dynos

Man no dyno is reliable

[AE85coupe]

thats true

[suberimakuri]

i disagree, torque seems super reliable when comparing runs.
and that dyno compares to kiwi-re who run dyno dynamics, and they all compare to bellars which have dyno dynamics as well.
and those compare to the dyno in palmy that keith went on, torque one i think.

they normally run in shootout mode, which is meant to mean they all run same factors as aussie and usa.

the only ones i'm unsure about as haven't tested is hub dynos.