Tech Docs For Newbies - Need reviews for mistakes...

[Stealer Of Souls]

Making good on something I said in the general forum. I started to put together some documents for those who, well, don't know anything about the topic.
These two pdfs are meant to be real general, non-specific, non-detailed. It's aimed at those who don't really know much about the subject at all.
But I need some knowledgable "old hands" to critique my work.

So for those with lots of engine building knowledge please check this one...
Engine Design Terms 101
to make sure I haven't made any gross errors. Please keep in mind that it is a non-detailed document meant to give a brief overview.

For those with lots of suspension knowledge here's one for you to check...
Suspension Design 101
This one is also non-detailed, and is primarily aimed at parts that can be changed (not so much camber/castor/toe settings).

Please give them the good once over and point out any gross errors, or things that might be worth putting in.

Once they've been checked over I'll try to get them posted up in the FAQ section for everyone to look at.

Cheers.

[Stealer Of Souls]

Now with fewer spelling/grammar mistakes...

[Stealer Of Souls]

Okay. So here's a pdf of all the common terms used when talking about handling...
Check it out, tell me of any mistakes.
As with the others. This one is just a beginners descriptive guide. Real general, non-specific

Handling Terms 101

Cheers...

[pc]

Just a small point on the wording in the handling doc. It says over & understeer is the vehicle moving to the inside or outside of the road. I would have said that the vehicle is POINTING to the inside or outside of the road.... as you can get oversteer and still move to the outside edge of the road.

[AJz]

Just a small point on the wording in the handling doc. It says over & understeer is the vehicle moving to the inside or outside of the road. I would have said that the vehicle is POINTING to the inside or outside of the road.... as you can get oversteer and still move to the outside edge of the road.

yea i reakon change:

understeer: loss of grip/traction to front wheels while turning causing considerable loss in steering control and causing vehicle to "snowplough"
Caused by too high speed corner entry/wrong line, bad tires, or uneven/slippery surfaces.

oversteer: loss of grip to rear wheels while turning causing back end to slide out out of wanted driving direction, caused by rear wheels rotating faster than the front, hence why the back loses grip and pushes outwards.

well, something like that, my definition is all a bit blah blah, but yea, watever

[Stealer Of Souls]

I get what you guys mean...
As for what it actually says, I'll have a think about it. Need the language to be SUPER-PLAIN so minimal use of terms like grip.
I also need something real general. I want to avoid talking about extremes.
Major oversteer will have the back end sliding out and the vehicle travelling toward the outside edge.
And major understeer will have the vehicle going in a straight line.

But step back to having just a little oversteer or a little understeer and what I've said is correct.


I think I'll add in what happens at the extreme ends of over and understeer... and change the wording to:

Understeer: Tendancy of the vehicle to move toward the outside edge of the road, during a turn, for a set amount of turn on the steering wheel.
Excessive understeer will cause the front tyres of the vehicle to slide, usually resulting in the vehicle travelling in a straight line.

Oversteer: Tendancy of the vehicle to move toward the inside edge of the road, during a turn, for a set amoutn of turn on the steering wheel.
Excessive oversteer will cause the rear tyres of the vehicle to slide, usually resulting in the vehicle spinning.


What do you think?

[Chickenman]

Maybe...

Under a subheading "Cornering"

Understeer: Oh Shit
Oversteer: Oh shiiiiiiiiiiiiiit

(Both MR2 related )

But seriously, I f you use subheadings you can take out the phrase "during a turn".

Sooo..
Understeer: Front wheels lose grip/traction causing the front of the car to continue on towards the outside of the corner. Excessive Understeer would see the car continue in a straight line.
FWD and MR cars are both prone to this.

Oversteer: Rear wheels lose grip/traction causing the rear of the car to continue on towards the outside of the corner. Excessive oversteer would see the car spin.
RWD and MR cars are generally more susceptible to this.

Please see the Supplemental PDFs, "Drive Types Explained" and "Drifting for Dummies".


(I'm kidding dude, your stuff is fine)

[RomanV]

I think if you try to simplify these documents too much, it will get confusing.

Your explanation of oversteer and understeer kind of makes sense, but only because I already know what they mean.

I would say that anyone interested in reading documents like this would know what grip means.

If you explain the 'extremes' of understeer and oversteer, it makes it easier to understand what is occuring when 'minor' understeer and oversteer occurs.

[Stealer Of Souls]

What I'd really like to say is...
Understeer: For a set steering input the corning radius of the vehicle increases.
Oversteer: For a set steering input the turn radius of the vehicle decreases.

But I reckon that could cause confusion.
I only wanna avoid the term grip, because saying that a tyre loses grip (which it does) makes people think of full on sliding. Which isn't necessarily obvious.
Again think slight over or understeer...

[RomanV]

To teach someone that fire is dangerous, do you show them a picture of a match, or a forest fire?


I think some diagrams would help explain a few things.
I am willing to help in regards to this, if you are interested.

[Stealer Of Souls]

Point taken...

I'm planning on making a more comprehensive doco later. This one was meant as a "quick guide". Maybe I should just leave the over/under steer descriptions to the more detailed one...
if you've got some good pics it'd be useful for the more detailed doco.

I'm also planning to try and do a series of more advanced info. Delve into some of the more intricate points, and expand on the language/meanings too...

Help is always appreciated...

[Malcolm]

if you want to get simple about it
Understeer:
When the car doesn't turn as tightly as it should for the given steering position.
Oversteer:
When the car turns more tightly than it should for the given steering position.

And you could elaborate by adding
US: because the front wheels are sliding so the car wont go in the direction they're pointing
OS: because the back wheels are sliding out around a corner, causing the car to point towards the inside of the corner

[Malcolm]

also in the suspension one, you might want to explain what you mean by "foot setting" as you might know what you mean, but I don't And many others probably wouldn't either.

also at the bottom of the suspension one
"Good turn-in is usually accompanied by more feedback from the steering axle through the steering wheel"

um, what's a steering axle?

[Stealer Of Souls]

if you want to get simple about it
Understeer:
When the car doesn't turn as tightly as it should for the given steering position.
Oversteer:
When the car turns more tightly than it should for the given steering position.

So simple! God I'm a dunce! Time to go hit my head against a wall for being a dumbass.
Cheers dude. That's exactly what I need!


Good point on the foot settings... I'll change that to be included too.

And so ends the under/over steer issues...

[Stealer Of Souls]

Okay I've updated the handling terms to reflect what's been said.
For those reading, read the handling before the suspension. That's the intended order of reading for those two.

I haven't done the engine terms doco yet. But will work on that. Should explain what all the common engine terms are.
Also gonna start work on a document covering some principles:
Drag, power, torque, lift, downforce, that sort of stuff. Again a 101 style document that just covers basics, in as little technical detail as possible.


Here's the updated files...
Handling Terms 101

Suspension Design 101

Engine Design Terms 101