Gen 2 3S-GTE and 3S-GE head comparisons

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Gen 2 3S-GTE and 3S-GE head comparisons

Postby Malcolm » Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:54 am

Yesterday I went to Dave's (RomanV) place and we pulled the head off his Gen 2 3S-GE; today I dropped the engine out of the AW11 and pulled the head off the 3S-GTE. I've been planning to try the 3S-GE head, as a poor man's alternative to a Gen 3 head.

Some of the main differences:
GE has top feed fuel injectors/rail, GTE has side feed
GE has a 6 stud exhaust flange, GTE has 7 stud, later ones had 8 (or was it 9?)
The cams appear to be the same; I measured with a cheap plastic venier caliper that sits in toolbox, but I'll probably need something more accurate to find if there's any difference. Anyway they both appear to be around 7.8-8.0mm lift, on both intake and exhaust; in fact the GE has two intake cams in it for some reason (both have slots for the distributor)

Anyway, I've taken some pictures of the ports for the sake of comparison.
Exhaust side, first is 3S-GE, I put the 3S-GTE exhaust gasket on to make comparison easier:
Image
and the 3S-GTE:
Image

Inlet side, 3S-GE first. For some reason this already had a T-VIS gasket on it, so you can clearly see the difference in the port size:
Image
and the 3S-GTE T-VIS head:
Image
And stolen from Richard Doig's website, here's a Gen 3 inlet side:
Image

Close up of the inlet ports, 3S-GE first. You can see this is a fairly uniform size right the way down:
Image
And the 3S-GTE one, this tapers quite severely from the large size required by the T-VIS system, down to roughly the same size as the GE head:
Image

And finally, here's a shot of the combustion chambers. The valves appear to be the same size, but I'll measure them later. 3S-GE first:
Image
and 3S-GTE:
Image

Notice how the 3S-GTE is much whiter on the exhaust valves? I'm guessing this is due to the extra heat created by the turbo engine.
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Postby Low_Aa63 » Fri Dec 30, 2005 4:25 am

nice feet :P :P
The list so far
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Postby Ako » Fri Dec 30, 2005 9:13 am

Oi, I've got spares of both those heads on TM at the moment, bids up to like $20 at the mo :x
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Postby RomanV » Fri Dec 30, 2005 10:59 am

Yeah, that was weird about the TVIS gasket. :?

But yes, it is interesting to see the differences between the port shapes.

And the difference in the size of the ports between the gen 2 and gen 4 NA motors. 8O

Image

Although admittedly it has had a port and polish, so I cant really say what the ports would look like originally.

P.S. This is alledgedly the cam info for gen 2 motors:

Second Gen 3SGE (165ps):
In: 244deg, 8.5mm lift (timing 7/57)
Ex: 244deg, 8.5mm lift (timing 57/7)

Second Gen 3SGTE (225ps):
In: 236deg, 8.2mm lift (timing 8/48 )
Ex: 236deg, 8.2mm lift (timing 56/0)

So yeah, only .3mm difference in lift, but the duration is a few degrees different.
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Postby mr30%jr » Fri Dec 30, 2005 11:34 am

so how is the gen 1 different?

didnt it have top fed?

i know theres 1 les EX stud cause it pokes out the side of the manifold
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Postby Adydas » Fri Dec 30, 2005 11:46 am

Anyone know the Cam mesurements for a ST215 3sgte head?

RomanV what did the Port and polish do for you?
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Postby RomanV » Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:10 pm

Adydas wrote:RomanV what did the Port and polish do for you?


I'll let you know when I know, I havent had the motor running yet.
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Postby Adydas » Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:56 pm

what stage is your motor in?
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Postby Malcolm » Fri Dec 30, 2005 1:00 pm

mr30%jr wrote:so how is the gen 1 different?

didnt it have top fed?

i know theres 1 les EX stud cause it pokes out the side of the manifold


The gen 1 3S-GTE and 3S-GEs are very similar to the gen 2 3S-GTE, except as you've said, they had top feed injectors and one less stud on the exhaust side. I believe the cams may have been different too in some way, because supposedly cams made for the gen 2 don't fit the gen 1...?
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Postby RomanV » Fri Dec 30, 2005 1:42 pm

Adydas wrote:what stage is your motor in?


Well, its still in bits and pieces, will hopefully be going some time this year. :)

Adydas wrote:RomanV what did the Port and polish do for you?

I recall someone (Dodgy I think) saying that for the NA gen 4 motor, a P&P is only worth about 5hp. As the factory setup is already quite good.
However, this wont necessarily be the case for different 3S motors, eg. a gen 2 3sgte. As the ports are quite different, as you can see above.
I would imagine that a P&P job is pretty far down the list though, as far as cost effective mods go for an otherwise standard turbo motor.

And I know that this is the tech section, and I shouldnt go off topic, but.....
hehehe


And (a little more on topic) it would be interesting to see the cam setup for an Altezza head, as apparently they have an extra cam cap at the VVTI sensor end of the head. If this is the case, I wonder why?
I dont suppose that anyone has any pictures of the cam setup for an Altezza engine?
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Postby Al » Fri Dec 30, 2005 3:51 pm

RomanV wrote:And (a little more on topic) it would be interesting to see the cam setup for an Altezza head, as apparently they have an extra cam cap at the VVTI sensor end of the head. If this is the case, I wonder why?
I dont suppose that anyone has any pictures of the cam setup for an Altezza engine?


I'll ask turbo tezza, he has a whole altezza engine and head seperated sitting in his garage gathering dust.
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Postby mr30%jr » Fri Dec 30, 2005 11:20 pm

Al wrote:
RomanV wrote:And (a little more on topic) it would be interesting to see the cam setup for an Altezza head, as apparently they have an extra cam cap at the VVTI sensor end of the head. If this is the case, I wonder why?
I dont suppose that anyone has any pictures of the cam setup for an Altezza engine?


I'll ask turbo tezza, he has a whole altezza engine and head seperated sitting in his garage gathering dust.


wats his address and does he have a dog?
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Postby vvega » Sat Dec 31, 2005 7:44 am

the gen 1 also has sholders in the ports just before the ports
the gen1 3sge head looks liek it has more in comon with the gen2 3sgte head

i have one of each of those spare as well malcom if you want them :D

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Postby Al » Sat Dec 31, 2005 7:50 am

mr30%jr wrote:wats his address and does he have a dog?


He lives in Christchurch and no.
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