Looking for technical adviser for my new N/A motor.

[Paulio]

Hey all,

im building a new motor for my levin, my goal is a high revving version of the original motor from the car - 4age smallport.

Ive been collecting ideas and parts for the last couple of months but i would like to utilise an adviser with this one, since i havn't built a motor like this before.

Someone with experience in the same/similar thing would be great to throw ideas around with, instead of trying to build a motor from a forum. (not that theres anything wrong with that)

To get an idea, so far im working on the block, its a smallport block, oil squirters & external oil drain, cleaned & new frosties etc, using a steel gtz crank 42mm bigends, silvertop rods & smallport 10.4:1 pistons.
new arp rod, main, flywheel, head bolts, acl race big & main bearings, wanting to use a 3.7kg(ish) flywheel with alloy crank pulley then will get everything from the crank pulley thru to the clutch balanced. with that, i should have an almost bulletproof, nicely ballanced & beautifully gliding block, ready for a thrashing.

the head is a whole lot of work because thats where all the power will come from, looking at valve jobs, deadly cams, under bucket shims, itbs, velocity etc. waaaay over my head.

so, anyone got wise knowledge with this kind of set-up?

regards, paulio

n.b. i know 20v head would be easier but thats no fun, theres always the next engine.

[strx7]

IMHO you'd be better off with pistons which give you around 12:1 - 12.5:1 static compression. and for cams you'll want something with around 270-290 advertised duration

[rollaholic]

yeah if you want to get serious about NA stuff you need more compression

theres a good bit of reading on that billzilla site or w/e should give you a basis of what needs to happen when. requirement for more revs seems to come fairly late in the power / expense stage of things.

[Trevor]

You can use echo lifters, they come in set sizes but are shimless, so no worry with revs and lift, just a pain to setup. Also look at TRD bearings, and make sure they are sized correctly for your block and crank. Check crank straightness. Wiseco make nice high comp pistons. And yea get that compression up there! Make sure cams are matched to what powerband you want and what numbers your head flows. With lift upwards of 10mm beware of coil bind in the valve springs as well, Toda seem to be ok?

I have a Link G3 with loom and a basemap for an aggressive smallport on it that I may be interested in selling. I have spool rods, arp bolts, 45mm quad throttles, a late model smallport block and crank with TRD bearings and TRD rod bearings all lying around if you are interested. All unused

[pc]

One thing to remember with high compression is the availability of petrol. If it will only run on race gas, you can't just go to the gas station and fill it up.

[Mr Revhead]

You can use echo lifters,

only in the 1SZ engine, which is in imports only.

[Paulio]

Awesome guys, i shall look in to some high(er) compression pistons.

Is race gas really necessary for around 12:1 compression? Would 101 octane be sufficient? Otherwise I can source race gas.

I guess the power im looking for would be from 5 - 10/11k rpm. But how is the power range determined?

paul

[Mr Revhead]

if your looking at 11k then your going to need to expand your budget..... better crank for starters!

[gepsk8]

u using this for road or track?
do they sell 98 up there?
u running standard ecu or carbs or aftermarket?
if its for street i wouldn't go that light on flywheel 4kg max
if i was u running street car, with access to only 95 do want u are with link rev out to only 8.5max, with good tune.

[Paulio]

Revvy, yes i nearly forgot. i will pass on the $4k crank this time. iirc about 10k rpm is a safe limit for the steel crank?

u using this for road or track?
do they sell 98 up there?
u running standard ecu or carbs or aftermarket?
if its for street i wouldn't go that light on flywheel 4kg max
if i was u running street car, with access to only 95 do want u are with link rev out to only 8.5max, with good tune.

road mainly, i dont think it would be fast enough to bother with track (a $2000 vtec honda would be just as fast ) but we will see, would love to get in to track racing for some fun.

surprisingly we do have 98 here! macas 24/7, 2 gas stations 24/7 and we're getting a wendys soon!! yas.
ill be running a full custom tune aftermarket ecu.

[gepsk8]

k, then i would get some blacktop or high compression pistons around 11.1
with head work should be some fun
i wouldnt go light than 4kg for road flywheel as i've got 4.6 and that can be ass on hits starts, with mildy h/duty clutch also what g/box u gona run as if u to mean on c52 they bit back and blow up, on standard 4ages

[frost]

k, then i would get some blacktop or high compression pistons around 11.1
with head work should be some fun
i wouldnt go light than 4kg for road flywheel as i've got 4.6 and that can be buttocks on hits starts, with mildy h/duty clutch also what g/box u gona run as if u to mean on c52 they bit back and blow up, on standard 4ages

ah he said smallport correct? then he wont be using blacktop pistons.

another vote for reading billzilla's web site to get the idea of what you need.
he has spent the money and is almost the perfect guru/higher info guy.
also the stock blacktop flywheel is not much heavier then 4.6 and that's piss easy to drive,

[Trevor]

You can use echo lifters,

only in the 1SZ engine, which is in imports only.

Yea you are right. Sorry for not specifying that. I should know I learnt that the long way haha. Toyota sales rep kept bringing different heads to strip to find the right ones .

And I can not prove this unfortunately but I know a fe reputable people who raced 4age's for a long time and they used to rev them to 11k and higher on standard cranks, with a few modifications and tight tolerances ofcourse, but I wouldnt say you have to use a aftermarket crank, just depends how much you want to risk I guess . These were in single seaters and very light sportscars though, so very light flywheels and not alot of mass to get moving. Would be interesting in a street car. The cost of a reliable drivable 4age revving over 10k and making 200hp+ makes a k20a/k24 combo and gearbox look cheap.

[QikStarlie]

12.5 should run on 98 fine. using 11.5:1 toda pistons and .8mm head gasket on my smallport. runs fine on 95. difference with 98 and more advance was only a few kw on dyno.

as others said will need alot spent on it too pull those revs and make power. mine starts to loose power well before 9k with 310 deg cams, altho the head itself hasnt had much done to it

[spoonza6]

has anyone here had any experience with the Formula Atlantic 4AGE?

those things sound yum revving their nuts off

[Paulio]

k, then i would get some blacktop or high compression pistons around 11.1
with head work should be some fun
i wouldnt go light than 4kg for road flywheel as i've got 4.6 and that can be buttocks on hits starts, with mildy h/duty clutch also what g/box u gona run as if u to mean on c52 they bit back and blow up, on standard 4ages

sounds like me, wiseco make a nice high compression 16v piston. (ooo shiny )

the 2nd option for the flywheel was about 4.2kg, maybe a bit more realistic? anyone else comment on flywheel weights?

i havn't yet grasped the gearbox codes, either ae101 gtz lsd or ae111 bzr 6spd lsd.

[frost]

has anyone here had any experience with the Formula Atlantic 4AGE?

those things sound yum revving their nuts off

yeah you can buy one for 15k usd.

[gepsk8]

c52 is standard to ur car, u will eat 6speed there got shit diffs, and i would say ze ratios aren't great to suit n/a 4age.

[rollaholic]

I guess the power im looking for would be from 5 - 10/11k rpm.

are you bolting a turbo onto this engine? i think highly strung, small displacement NA engines can only dream of such massive power bands

[rollaholic]

12.5 should run on 98 fine. using 11.5:1 toda pistons and .8mm head gasket on my smallport. runs fine on 95. difference with 98 and more advance was only a few kw on dyno.

as others said will need alot spent on it too pull those revs and make power. mine starts to loose power well before 9k with 310 deg cams, altho the head itself hasnt had much done to it

is this the smallport that runs 14s in your starlet?