Cert? Yeah i think so!

[Caveman]

Its still not clear cut and would come down to the inspectors judegment on what the VIRM says. No point FAQing it if you guys have decided amongst yourself what means what

Secondly, if the guy didn't issue the warrent, then issued the warrent for the same suspension setup, how can you say he was right both times?

Well if something looks marginal, or if you think it is unwarrentable then it should be failed. I agree with him that height adjustment suspension requires a cert.

However when showed the technicallity that trd height adjustment is OE equipment and thefore doesnt require a cert, it appears he was polite about it and gave the wof, which a lot of grumpy old stuborn bastards dont do.

Ideally when in doubt a wof officer should consault LTSA guidelines. However because this isnt always done sometimes you have to do the leg work, which isnt much of a problem.

I guess the thing I see here is a lot of people dont like being proved wrong, however this person was polite enough to see he was wrong and gave the wof, he made a good call the first time (ok not 100% correct) to fail but was willing to give the wof after proven wrong.

[BigDon]

No worries dude happy to help another person prepared to support TRD and stand up for the no cert brigade.

I’ve have been getting warrants for the last year or so with no worries once I explained to my mechanic what “OE” was defined as. The key issue I see is a lot of warrant guys don’t read the VIRM, they work on what they know and what they have been told which is usually correct 99% of the time. The common misconception is that ALL adjustables need a cert so that’s what most people think. The VIRM seems pretty clear that if it is fitted from factory or supplied by the vehicle manufacture then it is “OE” as defined and does NOT require a cert.

So lets consider the legal interpretation side of things......

Now applying the rules of statutory interpretation where words take their plain english meaning unless otherwise defined, lets assume Toyota is the vehicle manufacture (this is not a defined term in the VIRM) and I brought my TRD parts from Toyota NZ (the NZ incorporated subsidiary of the Japanese parent company I assume) there can be little argument that TNZ is not the “vehicle manufacturer “ in common parlance or at least holds itself out as being the NZ representative of such, so TRD parts purchased from TNZ (TRD parts are shipped from Toyota Japan anyway or so my packing slips said) are parts supplied by the vehicle manufacturer (taking the plain english meaning of the words) (which leads me to the argument of whether other parts supplied by TNZ (say Whiteline) could also meet the definition by their mere supply by TNZ, which I won’t bother discussing but could make an interesting argument.

The other case worth considering is where TRD parts are not supplied through TNZ for example when they were supplied (I assume) by TRD directly to Sollitt Trading an authorised agent of TRD. While I am not aware of the corporate holding structure of TRD I assume again that it is a division (or subsidiary) of Toyota Japan (“the vehicle manufacturer”) and therefore any TRD parts supplied by TRD via Sollitt Trading for example would also be parts supplied by the vehicle manufacturer albeit through the TRD division of Toyota Japan.

I don’t follow the logic some seem to have regarding why changing suspension components like this should need a cert when they are clearly “OE”. For a start these parts come out of the same factory and have the same years of research (plus being race proven) behind them as the other factory bits fitted to the cars. I agree that these parts are a major safety issue so buying the bits made specifically for your car and made by the people who made your car has got to be best, just because it’s an OE adjustable does not make it any less safe than a OE replacement non-adjustable strut (and the VIRM would seem to agree). However, you could buy replacement non OE struts made by some “Kamkuza” brand for example that don’t need a cert simply because they are not adjustable but I know what I would rather have (TRD) and it would have been subject to all the rigorous Toyota quality controls. (Pity the same cant be said for blacktop rods LOL).

I would love a lawyer (if the board membership has one) to consider this and post up their considered opinion.

My 2 cents...

[Emperor]

Sorry to bring a nold thread up, but on the same note as a WOF..

If you're pulled over by police, or go through a VTNZ Boyracer Checkpoint..
How are you gona tell the cop TRD adjustables are OE? I bet you he won't take a bar of it and pink sticker your car.

[bluemaumau]

or go through a VTNZ Boyracer Checkpoint..
.

a what!!!!!!!!!

no he wont have a bar of it, perhaps a document or plate from toyota or a certifer???????????

[rolla_fxgt]

I guess if you had the money you could make it a test case in a court of law by defending the charges & then argue that trd are OE. But in my opinion i think you'd loose because the cops would get ltsa as a witness to argue that the intention of the OE rule was to provide for replacement of parts within the same class of cars if the exact origionals weren't available, say for example replacing suspension components from a low spec car with some from a higher spec car of the same model & class. Not TRD parts.

[rollaholic]

WOF aside your insurance company might have a different idea about whats ok and whats not also

[RedMist]

"OE" is defined as (©LTSA 2004, VIRM: In-service Certification, Version 2, Amendment 1, March 2004): OE means original equipment fitted at the time of manufacture of the vehicle, or a part supplied by the
vehicle manufacturer.

So unless this defintion has changed then TRD adjustibles shouldnt need a cert. I have invoices from TNZ for all my TRD stuff and they treat it just like any other Toyota part TNZ supply, actually I dont think the invoices even say that the parts are TRD it just has part numbers.

While I cant recommend a WOF place in Auckland download the VIRM and rock up with that and maybe ask TNZ to confirm that the TRD parts are factory toyota parts if the WOF guys wont accept the defintion in the VIRM.

My problems with your post are two fold.

1. Your understanding of the definition of OE is skewed. Even if you have been able to convince a WOF tester that TRD is Toyota it simply is not. Toyota Racing Development parts are not supplied by the manufacturer of your vehicle IE Toyota Japan. Toyota may wholy own the subsiduary TRD however that makes little difference in regards to the OE status. Likewise TNZ may supply TRD, whiteline, kamakuza parts, it simply does not make them OE Toyota Manufactured.

2. Coilovers are certed for a reason!! Most people who install coilovers dont have a clue as to how much the have the ability to dramatically ADVERSELY affect the performance of the vehicle. Altering caster, camber, scrub, ackerman, corner weight, is only going to make the car want to terminally oversteer / understeer or dramatically increase stopping distances. I SHIT YOU NOT. I'm installing coilovers in my rally car. In order to do so I'll set ride height, align, corner weight, then re align the car again. Then its going to be certed. Cheap life insurance to ensure everything I have done is done correctly.

Stop trying to buck the system. Believe it or not the cert process is there to attempt to save your life and that of whomever you potentially hit.
[/rant]

[Mr Revhead]

redmist... the thing is LTSA's own definition of OE is supplied by the manufactorer as replacement parts..... therefore that does qualify TRD.
been there, done that, passed.
the catch is where the TRD product says "for racing"

[Jdawg]

Sorry to bring a nold thread up, but on the same note as a WOF..

If you're pulled over by police, or go through a VTNZ Boyracer Checkpoint..
How are you gona tell the cop TRD adjustables are OE? I bet you he won't take a bar of it and pink sticker your car.

He uses the same paperwork that convinced the WoF man, which he keeps in his glovebox.
As long as he hasn't done anything stupid actully having a polite conversation with a policeman is allowed.
Or maybe it's because I'm older and can get away with it.

[Leon]

Here's a cunning idea. Talk to the people who write the rules. Chances are they will know the ins and outs, and actually have the final word on the subject.

LVVTA, Kendall, (04) 477-4374

That way, we never need to see this thread ever again.

[BigDon]

http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/certif ... ion-v3.pdf

The definition has been further clarified....

"Original equipment (OE)
(unless stated otherwise elsewhere in this manual) means equipment that is fitted by the vehicle manufacturer when the vehicle is manufactured, or equipment that is approved by the vehicle manufacturer for use in a specific vehicle type for a specific purpose or as a replacement for the original equipment."

Is TRD approved by Toyota for use in a specific vehicle type for a specific purpose OR as a replacement for the original equipment... I think yes?

Even under the old definition I still maintain my view that TRD parts are parts supplied by the vehicle manufacturer, plenty of parts that go into a Toyota are not even made by Toyota e.g. Nippon denso or a yamaha head, TRD is wholly owned by Toyota Japan. It would be farcical if you could have TRD parts fitted when you ordered your new car that were OE but not OE if fitted once delivered to NZ.

We could argue about this all day and I do appreciate your point of view, my coilovers are in my track car and are set to TRD specs, wheel alignment, corner heights and weights etc all done. I’m trying to work (rather than buck) the system and save myself some money which I spent on getting the parts installed and set up properly by a very experienced professional.

All the factors you set out can be affected by putting in lowering springs that don’t need a cert (generally) and anyway a certs like a warrant just because you have one doesn’t mean the car is safe post issue of the warrant and does a cert even check all the things that you note as being potentially effected?

I get warrants, I’m not some young boy who hoons about town at night with my cap backwards so boy racer checkpoints aren’t a big concern and my insurance coy are relaxed. In fact, based on what they consider a mod (similar to OE def) my TRD coilovers aren’t but I have disclosed them for completeness. AND I didn’t waste $350 getting a pointless (IMO) cert!

[Mr Revhead]

if you have this set then you have a problem.....

[Lloyd]

Heh, I read that as Sushikit