turbos 3071r vs 3076r

[cat007]

Im talking about the Garrett ball bearing series.

So then the plain bearing Garrett's are probably much the same to repair? You cant compare a BB to a journal bearing turbo for cost of repair.....

Master Power is def not from China. They are made in Brasil and have been making turbos for years!!! Since 1970s!

http://www.masterpower.com.br/novoSite/ ... /index.php

Its a bit of a shame that alot of people think its just another cheap chinese turbo. Even some guy at the drags asked me the same question!

I think the problem is they are cheap and have that "polished bling look" which is what a lot of the cheap china turbos have....

Were they always made there though?

[Lith]

It seems to me that more turbo lag as a cure for wheelspin seems a bit backwards, if the goal is to go as fast as possible surely you'd be wanting boost (and thus torque) across the widest rev range possible? If you can attain your power goals (and it certainly sounds like you can) with a smaller turbo then I'd say go for it.

I agree 100%, with a smaller turbo you have more control over the way the boost comes on. With a bigger turbo if you are drag racing you have to give it more revs and more throttle to get the turbo going, making it more knife edge - smaller turbo responds quicker and if you set the car up right and drive it right you should be able to go quicker. Same goes for track.

Why exactly are you looking at changing turbo, if you don't want a responsive turbo and you don't want more power? If I had a 2litre 6cylinder engine which I wanted to make a good amount of power out of with some semblance of response I'd got with a .78a/r twin scroll GT3071R which should see you being able to delve well into the 200rwkw area, getting near 300. I would make sure you have a properly design split pulse manifold for it.

I have a GT3076R and it would be quite laggy and then come on really violently on a 1GGTE with a .63a/r turbine housing, with a .82a/r it would be a bit more laggy but less violent. .63 is good for a bit over 300kw @ wheels, .82a/r is good for a few more than 300kw @ wheels so more than you are looking for.

[Bazda]

The picture you see on their website shows a shiny turbo.
None of them sold in NZ are shiny.

Master Power has never been made in China, what I think happened is people just thought masterpower is chinese as they had no knowledge of them and got them mixed up with ssautochrome/xspower, SSAUTOCHROME (XSpower) advertise a turbo which has a masterpower sticker in the photo!!!!!! when it wasnt even a master power turbo just a chinese turbo. Those auctions were on ebay a little while ago, but cant find them right now.

And this is where I think people are getting it wrong!

[cat007]

The picture you see on their website shows a shiny turbo.
None of them sold in NZ are shiny.

Master Power has never been made in China, what I think happened is people just thought masterpower is chinese as they had no knowledge of them and got them mixed up with ssautochrome/xspower, SSAUTOCHROME (XSpower) advertise a turbo which has a masterpower sticker in the photo!!!!!! when it wasnt even a master power turbo just a chinese turbo. Those auctions were on ebay a little while ago, but cant find them right now.

And this is where I think people are getting it wrong!

OHHHH - Maybe I'm thinking of XS Power.....

Sorry about that - /end rant

and now we can get back to the real topic at hand hehe

Cheers Baz for clearing that up

[iOnic]

nothing wrong with masterpower turbos.

http://www.bblgroup.us/ssautochrome.htm

those things above just happened to be confused for masterpower turbos when they first showed up on the market a coupla years ago and because of that everyone thinks masterpower = bad.

[DRFTIN]

i think your theory on more lag=less wheelspin is backwards
once the big turbo gets spooled up it will kick in the power harder than a smaller one, giving more wheelspin. a smaller turbo will gain the power more evenly, and be easier to control
i think

[matt dunn]

i think your theory on more lag=less wheelspin is backwards
once the big turbo gets spooled up it will kick in the power harder than a smaller one, giving more wheelspin. a smaller turbo will gain the power more evenly, and be easier to control
i think

I agree,

More lag means it come on later, and way more sudden,
smaller will come on earlier and gently and easier to control.

Going to a bigger turbo to reduce wheelspin is dumb.

[cat007]

I agree,

More lag means it come on later, and way more sudden,
smaller will come on earlier and gently and easier to control.

Going to a bigger turbo to reduce wheelspin is dumb.

It may be dumb - but it works. Trust me - I know first hand

See - it's not so much that it "stops" wheelspin - but by the time the boost kicks in, you're (generally) on the straight and narrow - rather than mid-corner, thus reducing the chance of sideways action

i.e. out of the hairpin at Puke, I'm in 2nd gear (with a 4.5:1 diff) and I can floor it mid corner and know that it'll pull slow and clean out of the corner then once straight (or there-abouts) boost kicks in and I take off. If it happened any earlier - I'd be all over the show, or have to feather the throttle...

[matt dunn]

It may be dumb - but it works. Trust me - I know first hand

See - it's not so much that it "stops" wheelspin - but by the time the boost kicks in, you're (generally) on the straight and narrow - rather than mid-corner, thus reducing the chance of sideways action

i.e. out of the hairpin at Puke, I'm in 2nd gear (with a 4.5:1 diff) and I can floor it mid corner and know that it'll pull slow and clean out of the corner then once straight (or there-abouts) boost kicks in and I take off. If it happened any earlier - I'd be all over the show, or have to feather the throttle...

I have evidenc to the opposite,

the Corolla with the 1JZGTE in in we had, we ran smaller turbo's and was good out of corners,
the guy bought it and put a larger turbo on it and made more power with more lag, but could not get the lap times out of it as could not get drive out of the corner until on the straight and then got boost,
in the meantime, between the apex of the corner and the first 100m of the straight, the cars we were as good as or better than would drive away from him.

[postfach]

If it happened any earlier - I'd be all over the show, or have to feather the throttle...

This really irks me, you shouldn't be using the throttle like its an on/off switch, every adjustment you make should be a smooth transition, otherwise you're only fooling yourself that you're going fast.

With a smaller turbo you're going to get more control over the power you're putting to the ground because it will be more responsive to small changes in throttle position, compared to a big turbo which needs almost WOT to achieve usable boost.

[cat007]

If it happened any earlier - I'd be all over the show, or have to feather the throttle...

This really irks me, you shouldn't be using the throttle like its an on/off switch, every adjustment you make should be a smooth transition, otherwise you're only fooling yourself that you're going fast.

With a smaller turbo you're going to get more control over the power you're putting to the ground because it will be more responsive to small changes in throttle position, compared to a big turbo which needs almost WOT to achieve usable boost.

It irks me too - but hey - nothing I can do about it mid-corner

[matt dunn]

It irks me too - but hey - nothing I can do about it mid-corner because I dont know how to use 1/2 throttle

[cat007]

It irks me too - but hey - nothing I can do about it mid-corner because I dont know how to use 1/2 throttle

Har har fuuny

1/2 throttle would only make my boost come on EVEN LATER! That's not helpful....

Its all about burrying your foot but only when you know you won't have to lift

Watch my incar vids @ the hairpin. It may seem like I'm cruising round the hairpin but my foot's flat haha

[iOnic]

if you have to use lag to prevent wheelspin, you may need to learn how to drive there is life between no throttle and full throttle. you'll find this out the day a gt starlet leaves you for dead on corner exit because you're still waiting for boost

[cat007]

if you have to use lag to prevent wheelspin, you may need to learn how to drive there is life between no throttle and full throttle. you'll find this out the day a gt starlet leaves you for dead on corner exit because you're still waiting for boost

yup yup

[mjrstar]

It seems to me that more turbo lag as a cure for wheelspin seems a bit backwards, if the goal is to go as fast as possible surely you'd be wanting boost (and thus torque) across the widest rev range possible? If you can attain your power goals (and it certainly sounds like you can) with a smaller turbo then I'd say go for it.

I agree 100%, with a smaller turbo you have more control over the way the boost comes on. With a bigger turbo if you are drag racing you have to give it more revs and more throttle to get the turbo going, making it more knife edge - smaller turbo responds quicker and if you set the car up right and drive it right you should be able to go quicker. Same goes for track.

Why exactly are you looking at changing turbo, if you don't want a responsive turbo and you don't want more power? If I had a 2litre 6cylinder engine which I wanted to make a good amount of power out of with some semblance of response I'd got with a .78a/r twin scroll GT3071R which should see you being able to delve well into the 200rwkw area, getting near 300. I would make sure you have a properly design split pulse manifold for it.

I have a GT3076R and it would be quite laggy and then come on really violently on a 1GGTE with a .63a/r turbine housing, with a .82a/r it would be a bit more laggy but less violent. .63 is good for a bit over 300kw @ wheels, .82a/r is good for a few more than 300kw @ wheels so more than you are looking for.

Lith,
the reason to change was the fact the old one has lunched itself (foriegn object damage to the turbine wheel) and the quote was around 1100 to fix, so it seemed like a good time to upgrade to something with a bit more technoligy behind it..
looks like i have 3 options,
1: Bazda special. $1130 nzd

2: 3071r with a .63 exh hsg $1699 aud. www.horsepoweranabox.com

3: rebuild my old garrett copy turbo with genine parts. $1100.nzd

[Bazda]

Bazda special as in Master Power T04E 50 trim, one that is slightly larger than a GT2871 but not quite as big as a GT3076r. Could kind of call it inbetween , but similar to what he is running.

Also with Master Power you will have great support and you will be able to try different cover trims without breaking your bank account .

[mjrstar]

double post...

[mjrstar]

if you have to use lag to prevent wheelspin, you may need to learn how to drive there is life between no throttle and full throttle. you'll find this out the day a gt starlet leaves you for dead on corner exit because you're still waiting for boost

well if a 600hp race prepped torana isn't going past me on the exit of castrol onto the back straight i'd say it'd have to be a pretty special gt starlet to do so.....

although i got owned by a new GTR when i attempted a 4th gear exit

good gear selection should prevent lag becoming too much of a problem in most situations.

[RedMist]

I run two very small GT2560r's on my V6 and it's perfectly matched to give NA style power throughout the entire RPM range. On the other hand, I'm repeatedly pissed at my ST205 because the upgraded turbo won't spool until 4k RPM and without antilag its hopeless on any gearchange.

An engine is the sum of its parts, strapping a big turbo to a small, undeveloped engine, isn't clever and won't produce speed.

Do it right, play with the turbo maps on squirrel performance and try to put your power bang in the middle of the most efficient islands.
http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc/