Exhaust silencer question. Weld in or bolt in?

[RobertC]

Exhaust cert for noise regulations I can totally agree with. The only reason I'm having a problem is the WOF standards are not clear enough.

If the WOF code simply said that baffles must be welded in it would be easy and transparent. But the way it is written leaves far too much room for interpretation / the wof inspectors pov.

The WoF standard are written for proper mufflers, not some cheap piece of shit that needs a silencer (and to strangle the car) in order to actually make it quiet. If you can't pass a WoF without the baffle in get a decent muffler.

Callum

Exhaust in question is a 5zigen Miracle fireball, full exhaust. Priced @ 115,000 yen or $1780NZ I personally wouldn't qualify it as a "cheap piece of shit"

Went to the place in New Lynn this morning that does the $15 warrants and it passed no problem at all. Lesson learnt, don't go to vtnz.

[Mr Revhead]

Cost does not mean it is a system suitable for NZ roads and laws.

$15 WOF? What's the catch? No way can a business do that and be profitable.

[~SlideWays~]

Cost does not mean it is a system suitable for NZ roads and laws.

$15 WOF? What's the catch? No way can a business do that and be profitable.

Does it have 4 wheels? *Tick*

[Luke - BZG]

The WoF standard are written for proper mufflers, not some cheap piece of shit that needs a silencer (and to strangle the car) in order to actually make it quiet. If you can't pass a WoF without the baffle in get a decent muffler.

Callum

My brand new HKS Super Dragger II cat-back exhaust has a removable silencer.

Do you think it is a cheap piece of shit?


I'm also interested in this as I'd like to do the same... run silencer if its too loud on the street and remove it at track days.

[wde_bdy]

$1,800 for an exhaust system that doesn't make your car quiet enough to pass a WoF without a silencer? Wow, someone got ripped off big time.

Callum

[RobertC]

Cost does not mean it is a system suitable for NZ roads and laws.

$15 WOF? What's the catch? No way can a business do that and be profitable.

I suppose they must rely on repairing problems and selling tyres.

The place seemed very professional. Was a clean and tidy workshop with 3 lifts.
Car was driven onto lift. Exhaust and the usual stuff under the car were checked. Wheels bearings / suspension checked for play.

Car driven off the lift. lights, window wipers, washer fluid, seat belts and the other usual things were checked.

Didn't appear to be any less thorough than what VTNZ had done on Wednesday.


I'm well aware that cost has nothing to do with the legality of an exhaust system. Could go putting a buddyclub spec I on for $100's of dollars. But as its just a straight pipe it would be roudy as hell.

The exhaust here in question has 2 inline mufflers followed by a rear muffler and is JASMA certified.

$1,800 for an exhaust system that doesn't make your car quiet enough to pass a WoF without a silencer? Wow, someone got ripped off big time.

Callum

I can assure you I didn't pay anything close to $1800 for it...

[Mr Revhead]

I am not a fan of those silencers.
Not the best for economy and performance on a daily driver.
Better off to get a properly designed exhaust to suit your needs.
If you need multiple a use system, get different tail sections to use.

[Luke - BZG]

Yea... I'm hoping its not super loud and I don't have to use it. As long as I don't do circuits of courtney place on friday nights it should be ok.

[touge_ae101]

I am not a fan of those silencers.
Not the best for economy and performance on a daily driver.
Better off to get a properly designed exhaust to suit your needs.
If you need multiple a use system, get different tail sections to use.

i think you will find that a bought exhaust from a reputable japanese manufacturer will be a lot better than any crap you get an exhaust shop to do. i have seen some truely disgusting exhausts paid for with good money at a number of different exhaust shops. i paid $900 for my full 2 1/4 inch exhaust with 2 silencers and it is such a crap job with poos welds everywhere and crap quality silencers.

its not like its a 'dodgy' warrant. robs car would have to be one on the cleanest and examples of a ae111 nicely (and legally) modified with high quality parts from japan.
and on the other hand i got my last WOF at VINZ as it was going through the cert process and it measured 98dB and they still passed it. i asked cert guy if i needed to get the system certified and he said exactly the same thing as rob got told. its just a waste of another $200.

and its not like the WOF criteria sets any standard at all where passing a WOF means your car is annoying to the public or is going to be safer on the roads as we all know there has got heaps of other factors that determine if a car is 'safe'. they just like to pick on silly little things that arent really in the rule book anywhere as what rob quoted in the OP clearly shows that they have no grounding for failing him. if this happens often perhaps land transport should be made aware of these indiscretions which is ultimately making the WOF standard a bit of a joke cause VTNZ are making their own interpretations of the rules.

[GDII]

I was following a Civic years ago and the bolt in silencer came out. It obviously wasn't installed properly but one small bolt isn't much to hold it on.

[Mr Revhead]

The point is the exhaust is not suitable for NZ condition's or laws...
That alone is a serious flaw. In fact is grounds for full refund from seller as it does not meet the CGA

[RobertC]

I was following a Civic years ago and the bolt in silencer came out. It obviously wasn't installed properly but one small bolt isn't much to hold it on.

Yea and that's why most japanese systems come with a decent size bolt. Mine for example has a SS M8 bolt with a spring washer and nut on it. I can assure you it wont be falling out.



This thread is going in circles.

The point of the matter is that a japanese exhaust system (and many others) that comes with a bolt in silencer are legal and meets both the virm and lvv regulations.

[touge_ae101]

This thread is going in circles.

toyspeeds speciality!

yes i believe you are correct in your thinking and VTNZ are just c**ts.

[touge_ae101]

This thread is going in circles.

toyspeeds speciality! 98 pages of it here: viewtopic.php?t=79562 LOL

yes i believe you are correct in your thinking and VTNZ are just c**ts.

[Mr Revhead]

The point of the matter is that a japanese exhaust system (and many others) that comes with a bolt in silencer are legal and meets both the virm and lvv regulations.

Actually no, they don't.... hence these issues arising.
My understanding from last time I looked into it, if the silencer is removable, then it's illegal.

[RobertC]

The point of the matter is that a japanese exhaust system (and many others) that comes with a bolt in silencer are legal and meets both the virm and lvv regulations.

Actually no, they don't.... hence these issues arising.
My understanding from last time I looked into it, if the silencer is removable, then it's illegal.

Well one of us is miss interpreting it then.

The virm says this on the subject:

Grounds for failure:

The exhaust system is so constructed or modified that its
operation or effectiveness can be readily interfered with,
eg the driver is able to interfere with the exhaust system
by operating a manual switch, or the exhaust is fitted with
a flame thrower kit.

The lvvta code say this:

(a) the exhaust system, or components within the exhaust system, cannot be removed, altered, or interfered with, without the use of hand tools; or
(b) the performance or operation of the exhaust system cannot be altered from inside the vehicle, or whilst the vehicle is in motion, in such a way that the decibel levels specified in 2.9 are exceeded

So in relation to the lvvta its legal as it DOES require tools to modify part (a). And it cannot be modified from inside the vehicle part (b).

And in relation to the virm. It comes down to interpretation. The fact un-doing a bolt is could be defined as "readily interferable" is open for debate. Its just as easy as unbolting the exhaust if you really want to make some noise. But when you consider there example a bolt shouldn't be defined as readily interferable.

My thinking would be that as the lvvta code is more detailed its clearly legal....

[Mr Revhead]

Hand tool bit was not there last time I looked into it. because at the time the car in question had a silencer held in by a bolt.

[wde_bdy]

They have change the wording recently as NZTA at one point had specific guidance on bolt in silencers due to the number of people pulling them out straight after a WoF. I presume now that the police have an objective noise test they can send you to that will document if a silencer has to be fitted then it isn't deemed necessary anymore.
I still don't believe a muffler is doing its job if you need to put a massive restriction in it in order to keept it quiet. Might as well just run a straight pipe with a restrictor and save a lot of money, will have the same effect.
For the record, my HKS Super Dragger with a tip the size of my head has no provision for a bolt in silencer and does a perfectly good job of keeping my car quiet.

Callum

[ch4ng]

I'd never take my car to VTNZ for a WOF, for the reasons detailed above and because when I bought my car it came with a VTNZ WOF. The first time I looked under it (thankfully very close after I bought it) I found the rear tyres rubbing on the shocks, with NO mention whatsoever on the WOF sheet

[Brawler]

Exhaust cert for noise regulations I can totally agree with. The only reason I'm having a problem is the WOF standards are not clear enough.

If the WOF code simply said that baffles must be welded in it would be easy and transparent. But the way it is written leaves far too much room for interpretation / the wof inspectors pov.

The WoF standard are written for proper mufflers, not some cheap piece of shit that needs a silencer (and to strangle the car) in order to actually make it quiet. If you can't pass a WoF without the baffle in get a decent muffler.

Callum

Exhaust in question is a 5zigen Miracle fireball, full exhaust. Priced @ 115,000 yen or $1780NZ I personally wouldn't qualify it as a "cheap piece of shit"

Went to the place in New Lynn this morning that does the $15 warrants and it passed no problem at all. Lesson learnt, don't go to vtnz.

Just because you get the wank factor of having a brand name exhaust doesnt make it good, it sounds like a pretty ricer car

my 3" straight pipe cost me about $200. who would pay $1800 on an exhaust