ECU modding

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Postby sergei » Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:47 pm

well I guess, I was wrong about motec.

The best solution for road car is to tune factory ECU. Although it is not quiet possible with Toyota, and for others I haven't seen good tools that are equivalent of tuning tools for aftermarket ECUs.

I wander why no one thought of incorporating basic scripting in an aftermarket ECU?
Last edited by sergei on Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby QikStarlie » Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:48 pm

sergei wrote:For example very simple thing like controlling water pump:

I want water pump for I/C to turn on for 1 min and off for 3 min unless full throttle then run full time. Can you do that with link? Nope, you need little black box to do that.



why don't you just use the water sprayer function to control it? it only allows for 25 sec tho. im sure if you ask link nicely they could extend the available time in the next firmware. or could possibly set up a virtual aux to double available time
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Postby sergei » Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:53 pm

QikStarlie wrote:
sergei wrote:For example very simple thing like controlling water pump:

I want water pump for I/C to turn on for 1 min and off for 3 min unless full throttle then run full time. Can you do that with link? Nope, you need little black box to do that.



why don't you just use the water sprayer function to control it? it only allows for 25 sec tho. im sure if you ask link nicely they could extend the available time in the next firmware. or could possibly set up a virtual aux to double available time


I am after duty cycle output (eg On, Off, On, Off, On, Off,) 10s/30s will also work fine, I thought sprayer function must be triggered each time?
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Postby fivebob » Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:36 pm

sergei wrote:I wander why no one thought of incorporating basic scripting in an aftermarket ECU?

Motec have, and they do have this facility on the ADL but not on the current production x00 series ECU.

It was supposed to be included in their new ECU range but they seem to have gone very quiet on when that will be released.
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Postby fivebob » Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:39 pm

sergei wrote:I am after duty cycle output (eg On, Off, On, Off, On, Off,) 10s/30s will also work fine, I thought sprayer function must be triggered each time?

Why do it this way?

Why not just have a temp sensor for the I/C water temp and run it when the temp is above desirable inlet temp. Easy to do with the Motec and also include your requirement for always on at full throttle.
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Postby QikStarlie » Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:06 pm

so you want the on off cycle to run all the time the engine runs? plus pump run full time under boost?

try setup ic sprayer as virtual aux. program it to trigger off map and use 10kpa to for trigger (or something similar so its always triggered on)

setup you aux out to: general purpose output. switch it on using:

your virtual aux

or

map greater than *what ever boost you want*


could add in a third one in for tps greater than **



if it wont let you do it that way, you'l have to use 2 x aux outs to trigger relay for your pump





Edit: doing something like fivebob said is easy on link also
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Postby MAGN1T » Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:31 pm

Easier/cheaper with a jaycar kitset, why waste megadollars for such a simple problem?

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Postby gt4dude » Thu Jun 30, 2011 5:42 am

I cant believe u guys are saying Link is shit thats what I really want but its expensive, its one of those stock boost for now, Link down the track things.

Are you sure it cant handle knock control tho??? thats like a basic thing...
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Postby sergei » Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:24 am

gt4dude wrote:I cant believe u guys are saying Link is shit thats what I really want but its expensive, its one of those stock boost for now, Link down the track things.

Are you sure it cant handle knock control tho??? thats like a basic thing...


It is not basic at all.
Eg. how factory ecu deals with knock:
http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h59.pdf

And this it the other stuff that your factory ECU does well and aftermarket will not do:
Closed loop feedback system:
http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h58.pdf
And more importantly short term fuel trim and long term fuel trim correction (which is capable of correcting drifting sensors):
http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h44.pdf

and more importantly this is a very powerful feature:
LONG FT
LONG FT is stored in memory because it is part of the basic injection duration calculation. The ECM uses the SHORT FT to modify the LONG FT. The LONG FT does not react rapidly to sudden changes, it only changes when the ECM decides to use the SHORT FT value to modify the LONG FT. LONG FT is stored in the ECM's memory and it is not erased when the ignition key is turned off. Because LONG FT is part of the basic injection duration, it affects injection duration in closed and open loop. Like the SHORT FT, when LONG FT is at 0% there has been no modification to the basic injection duration. A positive percentage means the ECM is adding fuel; a negative percentage, subtracting fuel.
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Postby RunningRich » Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:57 am

How about an brand new Autronic SM2 that is 95% configured ready for a ST205?

All it needs (pretty much) is a new harness made for the Caldina ignition coils (also available).

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=387197257

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Postby QikStarlie » Thu Jun 30, 2011 6:56 pm

sergei wrote:stuff



have you actually looked at the lastest link software? knock control can co as far as individual cylinder trim, and will do pretty much what the stock ecu will. but you'd probably spend half your lifetime setting it up.
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Postby sergei » Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:05 pm

QikStarlie wrote:
sergei wrote:stuff



have you actually looked at the lastest link software? knock control can co as far as individual cylinder trim, and will do pretty much what the stock ecu will. but you'd probably spend half your lifetime setting it up.


I will give it a second look, because it is an awesome feature as every batch of fuel is different.
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Postby Tranquil » Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:35 pm

Plug two for the Autronic, for those who can see past the oppressive marketing that defines the Motec product catalog.. I run a SMC & SM4, for the $ spent there is nothing comparable.

Although saying that, Ray Hall seems to be associating himself with Vipec which is a re-branded Link G4 extreme.
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Postby gt4dude » Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:12 am

What about the Link G4 plugin kit for the ST205?

That is supposed to be wired and configured to use all the stock sensors and you are left with 1 or 2 auxilarys, more so if u do away with the water2air stuff

but every factory sensor is used aside from like an addon bosch wideband sensor, and (not in our case) a map & iat sensor to replace any factory afm that may exist.

did you get the plugin sergei or the wirein?

Ok here it is...

On link site it says

Knock with “windowing” via additional G4 KnockBlock

and

Closed Loop Knock Control. (Requires External Controller)


Soo, If we're forking out $1800 for the ecu and how much is the tune gonna cost??? a grand?? We may as well fork out for the knockblock aswell as any other accessories you may need?

I mean the details on this page

http://www.linkecu.com/products/TuningT ... knockblock

Look good to me? Seems to look good to Mr I'm da f**ken STM guy, But no good to Sergei, why not Sergei?
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Postby RunningRich » Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:16 am

Tranquil wrote:Plug two for the Autronic,

Although saying that, Ray Hall seems to be associating himself with Vipec


That is because he had a hissy fit spat with the dude that developed Autronic.

Autronic have always had a great product but there is insufficient development put into improvements (such as the knock control for SMC/SM2).

That said just becuase one ECU states it has knock control it does not authomatically make it a better product than one that does not.
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Postby sergei » Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:25 am

gt4dude wrote:What about the Link G4 plugin kit for the ST205?

That is supposed to be wired and configured to use all the stock sensors and you are left with 1 or 2 auxilarys, more so if u do away with the water2air stuff

but every factory sensor is used aside from like an addon bosch wideband sensor, and (not in our case) a map & iat sensor to replace any factory afm that may exist.

did you get the plugin sergei or the wirein?

Ok here it is...

On link site it says

Knock with “windowing” via additional G4 KnockBlock

and

Closed Loop Knock Control. (Requires External Controller)


Soo, If we're forking out $1800 for the ecu and how much is the tune gonna cost??? a grand?? We may as well fork out for the knockblock aswell as any other accessories you may need?

I mean the details on this page

http://www.linkecu.com/products/TuningT ... knockblock

Look good to me? Seems to look good to Mr I'm da f**ken STM guy, But no good to Sergei, why not Sergei?


I have wired my G3 that has been flashed to G4 on my ST165.
One thing is using knock block as form of headphone amplifier another interfacing it with ECU. The signal processing is very complex topic and it is extremely difficult to make a circuit/firmware that will reliably detect knock, especially with multitude of knock sensors and engines that knock at different frequencies.
Hence I am very sceptical about abilities of G4 to do knock control.
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Postby Tranquil » Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:08 pm

Why are people so interested in Knock Control? Are you all competing in a fixed formula where every single degree of ignition timing could be the difference between glory and defeat?

set Minimum Best Torque = job done.
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Postby iOnic » Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:20 pm

Pretty much^
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Postby sergei » Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:40 pm

Tranquil wrote:Why are people so interested in Knock Control? Are you all competing in a fixed formula where every single degree of ignition timing could be the difference between glory and defeat?

set Minimum Best Torque = job done.


Because NZ fuel is very inconsistent.
Do you really think the 98 you get at the pump is exactly 98?
I can bet sometimes 98 is a lot closer to the 96, and sometimes it is true 98.
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Postby blindnz » Tue Jul 05, 2011 9:15 pm

Fuel quality monitoring is actually conducted from the pump regularly, so I would imagine your 98 or pretty damn close to be sold as 98 otherwise its in breach of consumer laws.
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