TO4E on GZE

[Crucible]

And yes there are thousands of different sizes of to4e etc and thats the cover type not the comp wheel.

a to4e wheel is and has far more in comon with a modern wheel

Ok now im getting a little confused, Is T04b/e/s etc the cover or the wheel?So would it be correct to say when a T04b wheel is used it has to be matched with a T04b housing....right?

60-1 is an old John Deer tractor wheel.

So does this mean Garrett are using an older technology (60-1) wheel and renaming it a "S" type wheel for their GT line of Turbos?, therefore naming it a (T3/60-1). So in other words the older "60-1" and "S" wheels are identical Right??.
Also what are they reffering to by "o" "p" Trim etc etc , Is this referring to the type of exhaust wheel trim? Does stage 1 , 2 etc just mean bigger number bigger shaft?? You can search for hours on the net trying to find answers...anyone know???

Hmmm the mind boggles....

TNT

[Phothog]

The T04B/E is the model for the turbos manly the compressor cover &
compressor wheel & Seal plate, the rest of the turbo Bearing housing,
Heat sheild all interchangeable, but the turbine housing is made for a
specific application eg a Komatsu 1.15 A/r is the same size as a
Caterpillar 1.15A/r but the hight of the housing is slighty different....
Because of the application.

A T04B or E wheen can ( & i have done it) be machined into the other
cover eg on a RB20 Skyline we machined a 56.5mm T04E Compressor
wheel in to a T04B housing so it would fit onto the standard manifold
where as a T04E cover would hit the manifold.

the 60-1 compressor wheel orginal came of the Detroit TW41 series
turbos and as it has been said before "has powered lots of 600Hp vehicles",
infact i drove past one of my customer yesterday with a 60-1 in his 2jz
Mkiii Supra daily driver/drag car
(i wont say what the rest is, But the vehicle has over 400kw@tw).

and the "New" GT series turbos dont really have anything in common with
the "older" T series turbos, the compressor & turbine wheels are a
completly different design and yes they are Very good turbos BUT
in my own opinion the "older" T series is just as good.

last but not lest, the O or P Trim is the size of the turbine wheel.
O trim is 58mm exducer & the P Trim is 64.6mm exducer.
the O trim is not really used on performance turbos because it is too
small & heavy & a Stage 5 TA34 shaft will out flow it anyway.

this is my .2c worth ....

btw i have almost 6 years experance in just the turbo industry,
and i plan on staying there for alot more.

[Crucible]

this is my .2c worth ....

btw i have almost 6 years experance in just the turbo industry,
and i plan on staying there for alot more.

thanks......thats some very good advice , what do they mean by stage 1, 2 etc etc, Is a higher number just a Bigger Dia shaft or???

tnt

[vvega]

great post people dont relise even with a 60-1 there are quite a few comboinations and that hybrids are built for teh engine/car not just what you see on teh shelf

now sincxe you have bene in the industy so long i have a question for you
the supra ct26 had a largewr clearance from factory than the st165 single entry ct26

will this have the same effect as a backcut wheel and is perhaps the factorys cheap whay of making it flow more air ???

i can post some pics if you wish

v

[dash]

list of compressor and turbine wheel sizes found here
http://www.jblmk3.com/id97.htm

>>"and yes they are Very good turbos BUT
in my own opinion the "older" T series is just as good."

*exactly* what I've been saying all along. Numbers don't lie. Don't believe hype, figure it out yourself.
Sizing is the best thing u can do for ANY turbo car. A gt/bb won't fix a mismatch - a common misperception, promoted by "bandwagoners".
Biggest gains I can seen are in 'garrets' revenue.

A perfect case is the starions I mention. A few with new $$$$ bb gt turbos can't run with the plain ol' $500 t04b cars. 3 times the price and still can't match the performance. Money well spent ?

O trim has its place, and used on a few 10sec 2valve 4cyl motors.
Some 2.3sohc and 2.6sohc very fast 4cyl street cars tried the stage5 in a 0.63 and 0.82, all went back to the O

its very common practice for the mitsu guys to run the perrenial favourite 50trim/stageIII/0.63 with a t04b cover, due to clearance issues with the big ol' clumpsy E hsg (I hate 'em).

v,
its not a particularly bad thing, but you live in a "paper world".
What you dribble on about turbo 'theory' maybe correct, but spend more time observing what these turbos do in application and you'd understand what we're saying. I approach things from the business end, its the ONLY thing that matters. I leave the 'theory' to the scientists.

B series not for performance ?
Well neither was the 2.6L forklift motor used in the u.s. starion. Did you read any of my comments on them ?
The fastest street car of the bunch runs a mind boggling 10.4sec 1/4. t04b + 75 shot & *stock* 2.6 cam! Top notch performance for small money, especially for a heavy 4cyl street car... it may be old, but who cares. Most spend far more/go alot slower with new modern equipment

evoIII 16g a weak core ?
Won't *ever* get me to agree with that one. In fact, its the toughest li'l sucker I know of. Try 30+psi on journal brg t2 garret, see if you cam make it around the block. Most of my evo friends still original 16.

On efficiency.
Mitsu guys kept getting faster as they wound up the boost. What we're they supposed to do... stop ? ...and go read some compressor map ?

Why I choose the evoIII 16g for my 4agte ?
Every turbo I've seen on a 4agte rwd corolla, has gone faster than the same turbo/same boost on the mitsu. Can't touch the price either!
With a good tune/parts matching, I'll keep turning up the boost and see what happens... I don't expect anything less than a very low 11.

[Phothog]

now sincxe you have bene in the industy so long i have a question for you
the supra ct26 had a largewr clearance from factory than the st165 single entry ct26

will this have the same effect as a backcut wheel and is perhaps the factorys cheap whay of making it flow more air ???

i can post some pics if you wish

v

Thanks Vvega no pictures are nessary i know the turbos you are
talking about, if the clearance is around the turbine wheel then NO....
if there is more clearance around the turbine wheel then it would be
less efficent, causing a loss of power & spool.
putting a back cut on a turbine wheel well there is several theorys about it,
1 less weight on the wheel = better spool
2 tricks the wheel into thinking it is bigger = more potental air flow.

True-No-Turbo, the numbers on the staged shafts 1,2,3,4,5 Etc
all are the trim of the wheels wich arethe sizes of the base & exducer
of the turbine wheel.

oh yes.... when a turbo or core is made by Garrett it is handled by
50+ people... when a turbo orcore is made in the MHI (mitsubishi)
Factory it is handled by no one ... it is ALL robotic from start to packaging.

and the quaily of the MHI product is only second to IHI, the quality of the
turbos comming from IHI are so great that they give no warranty or
guantiee with there turbos or cores...

& some of my Rally customers run over 30+psi of boost & they last for
several rallys then they are rebuilt, & every year they get a new core.
as Dash said a garrett wouldnt last very long runing boost like that.

again my .2c

[vvega]

i dunno what you call it putting turbo's on 4ages and 3sgte's and even building the ocasional hybrid amongts the nermous rebuilds ive done but id hardly consider it a paper world
i9 have no issue with building my own turbo's to suit my application
dunno
i guess we have differnt views on things dash but one thing is true
i do know my theroy
and i have the practical enginnering skills (i am attually a engineer) to creat and modify what i need to

i as this dash
have you ever attually built a hybrid
bought the wheels the core the housing machined it all up yourself and then fitted it to a car and looked at the results
cause thats my paper world

i still have much to lern when it comes to why the factory dose soem things.. as seen above but that is somthing that comes from doing it all day everyday

i used to make aircraft parts and asemblys including designing the new fuel bowels on the xl750


now i build hydrilc rams /hubs/flywheels/axels/build up motor shafts/and design and build many one off items to a specific need
ive been building engines since i was old enough to hold a spanner
and doing engine coversions not far behind (its a family trait)
and i do my dam best to make the inposible posible

if thats all paper than dam i cant wait to get in the real world

v

[Skin]

good call dude, this guy knows his shit, why do you think everyone always comes to him for advice

and im gonna have to come down soon and check out that v8 powered mr2 you got, maybe when i pick up my finished seven from hamilton...

[Crucible]

good call dude, this guy knows his sh*t, why do you think everyone always comes to him for advice

Well Ive learnt alot from Vvega, Dash and Phothog, I think they all know their.....sh*t" ...maybe just ahhhhh.......well slightley differant opinions

TnT

[vvega]

sometimes i am wrong..... but when i am fivebob is normally hot on my tail to crank up my personal wood chipper :S


having differnt opinion's is what feed compatition witch in turn feeds development

i dont apologise for having my own ideas.. its what makes me good at what i do

v

[Bazda]

back to the topic...

My t3/4 which has a t04e cover has a much bigger wheel than all the ones listed in that site, its the same size as this one:
T-Series
Mk 4 CT-12 1.535 2.283
Mk 3 CT-26 1.811 2.559
TS04 2.300 3.30 4 4.000

[vvega]

back to the topic...

My t3/4 which has a t04e cover has a much bigger wheel than all the ones listed in that site, its the same size as this one:
T-Series
Mk 4 CT-12 1.535 2.283
Mk 3 CT-26 1.811 2.559
TS04 2.300 3.30 4 4.000

lol yeah but bazz we both know that thing is a freek it was barly smaller than my T70 !!!
and thats just not cricket


v