Choice of car st185 celica,bz levin or Nissan pulsar gtir

[footaction29]

Which one of these would cars would you buy in terms of speed,handling,dependability and cost to modify.I was looking at getting one of the three but I currently own a Ae 101 levin with a black top engine,I wanted to get my first turbo car for a liitle more speed.I am confuse as which one to buy,if someone can share their knowledge and experience with these cars and what they offer.I was trying to stick with toyota but the reputation of the st185 is that there are slow and heavy.

[blitza]

I'd get the honda.

[footaction29]

I was looking for something faster not slower,but I will that in mind when I want a car just to cruise around in.

[badassmofo]

if you can find a nice GTI-R you should take it, good engine, good power to weight ratio. People say the gearboxes are crap, but that's only if you treat them badly, just take launches slow, and corners fast and you'll be sweet.

[flygt4]

ill agree st185's r r slow and feel heavy stock , but once u free up the intake and exhuast and add a bit of boost they go really well , plus ull still have a toyota ive found the 185 to handle really well and it often surprises passengers how it can hold a line thru a corner.also they will take a fair bit of punishment without breaking.
gtir's r a good car , can be made to go damn fast.ud hav to treat it nice to keep it in one piece tho.id say its easier to modify than a gt4 due the fact its an sr20 and there is so much bolt on shit for them.
im really biased due to the fact i own a st185.

in my opinion speed and cost to modify in favour of gtir... and handling and dependibility in favour of st185.take both for a drive and see what u think......

[Jools]

I dont know what the current cost of a GTi-R is, but ST185s are pretty damn cheap.
They only need about $1k worth of mods to be reasonably quick.

But the GTi-R is a much faster car. IF you can find a reasonably stock one that hasnt had the pants thrashed outta it.
Else i've heard lots of horror stories about GTi-Rs, and from owners of them aswell. But then again, thrash any car hard enough and it dies.

As flygt4 said too, GTi-Rs are heaps easier to modify as there are heaps of off the shelf parts for them.

IMO the GT4 is the cheap starter with mods getting expensive for bigger power and the GTi-R is the expensive starter with bigger power being cheaper

[Twolitre]

What are the pricing comparisons between ST185's and GTiR's like in the West Indies at the moment? That should basically make the decision for you. If it's anything like the difference in price here than for the price of an ST185 you could modify it to do everything better than a GTiR for the same price, that's exactly what I'm doing, but not specifically to be better than any particular car.

[EVLGTZ]

yeah, dunno what the price difference is in barbados but id be going th gtir if was in nz.

they respond really well to mods and in std form would waste a smelly old st185 or new bz levin.

I could get a std gtir running 12s with less than 1k of mods, doubt that would heppen to a st185.

nuff said.

[Mr Revhead]

get the right model of gtir and they really fly!! (only been in one) went for a ride in an RA (?) version, the one with wind up windows etc that you turn into a rally cars, its was a few years ago but i remember this thing was sooo fast in a straight line! (didnt go round many corners) they do have a rep for being fragile though.....

[flygt4]

yea thats the rb spec model they are pretty tidy.nearly went for one myself.but try 5-6G for a decent st185 against 8-10G for a gtir.
theres a few quick st185's round tho ,with I+E, FMIC and highflowed turbo the times will drop markedly.also if u were gonna be goin for 1/4 times then the extra reliability of the st185 wuld at least let u hav a few more runs out of it.i hav heard a few horror stories bout launching on the gtir box.

[EVLGTZ]

well ive had a fair bit of experience with gtirs, and personally seen only a few gearbox problems out of the many pple i know through the club with them.

doesnt have to be an rb spec model either to go fast.

I have mates pulling low 12s (12.2etc) in there reliable daily drivers with bugger all mods and even std turbos and top mount i/c's.

I know which car id be choosing.

[Loudtoy]

I'd have to agree with evlgtz here! Personally i would take a gtir over a st185. The extra money you spend on it is well worth it when you decide later that hmm i want some more power (who doesn't decide that on here) after you've donbe the basic intake and exhaust mods!
Also on a side note i've heard rumors that they were supposed to be fragile boxes but haven't seen or heard of one breaking yet!

[Dell'Orto]

The one real negative against GTi-R's is that they are a complete PITA to work on, take off intercooler to do plugs etc, drop motor to do clutch (Though this seems to be a common theme for 4WD's )
That, and they're quite front heavy...I've never had a chance to drive a ST185 in anger, but from what I have experienced the GT Four handles better...GTi-R's are a lead tipped arrow albeit a very rapid one.

GTi-R if you want something fast with potential to go faster.
GT Four if you want a cheap base to start with and go pretty quickly.
BZx Levin if you want cheap insurance

[diss7]

I've had 3 GTiR's and never blown a box; and I've taken them to drags and done 1.6 60fts.

[B_giB]

just remeber that gti-r's are prone to understeer

[diss7]

They are a wicked round town car.
If you want a track car, get a mr2,
A gtir will corner as hard as most cars around town, and sure they understeer; but once your runnin 18psi all you need to do is slap 2nd and all that understeer will step out.

So I've heard

[B_giB]

A gtir will corner as hard as most cars around town, and sure they understeer; but once your runnin 18psi all you need to do is slap 2nd and all that understeer will step out.

So I've heard

just like i know they understeer in a "controlled" environment

[Jools]

That, and they're quite front heavy...I've never had a chance to drive a ST185 in anger, but from what I have experienced the GT Four handles better...GTi-R's are a lead tipped arrow albeit a very rapid one.

They dont come more front heavy than the ST-185.
The engine sits forward of the front wheels and makes them understeer.
Plus the 3S-GTE has a heavy cast iron block which makes matters worse

[EVLGTZ]

The one real negative against GTi-R's is that they are a complete PITA to work on, take off intercooler to do plugs etc, drop motor to do clutch (Though this seems to be a common theme for 4WD's )

actually the clutch CAN be done without having to toally drop the motor. I've seen the total job done in about 6 hours which aint tooo bad considering.

[gt4mike]

The SR20 and 3SGTE are probably equally good engines, the 3S maybe having better capability for extreme power with its iron block and not being plagued by the horrible valve/rocker setup the sr20 has. The difference is the SR20 comes with a good standard turbo whereas the CT26 on the 3s really isnt comparible to the T28 in the pulsar. The ct26 can be modified with bigger wheels etc, but the same could be done to a t28 as well, so until the turbo is replaced or upgraded it will always be a struggle to match the gtir performance.

The st185 is also a much larger car than the pulsar, and in true Toyota fashion its built in a very solid manner so it packs on about 100kg over the gtir - which is another place where some performance is lost.

Having said that, its all compromises, and the gt4 does have a much better weight balance with its longer wheel base, and a stiff chassis, and also its longer overhang on the back balancing out the weight from front to rear better and from my experience the handling is significantly better than the understeer prone gtir.

Any 4wd gearbox is going to be under a fair amount of stress from a high power engine, and the gt4 is substantially stronger internally than the gtir. A simple side by side comparison of the gear clusters makes it really evident which box will take more abuse. I have a friend who works mainly on gtir's and the amount of blown gtir boxes that he replaces is truely amazing. Most of them probably are getting given a hard time, but its definetly a consideration which should be made, and proves that they are far from indestructable.

If you are after a car to mod to go fast on a budget and are intending to get someone else to do the work I'd probably go with the gtir. The initial cost is more, but as others have said the availability of parts is much better and there are more mechanics who have worked on gtir's, so bang for buck the gtir will be quicker. If you want a bit more of a challenge - want to keep it toyota, and want to be one of not many owners that are brave enough to get their hands dirty and aren't to phased at the idea of having to fabricate parts then go with the gt4 and have something a bit more unique.