3SGE QUESTION

[dzk]

Im relatively new to this website and have to say there is a good wealth of info on here and people are really helpful

I bought a st162 1986 celica but the engine doesn't go. I had a hobbyist mechanic have a look at it wouldn't even start. Was told that the camshaft cog had snapped on the block and better off just to replace the engine.

Found it quite hard to find a 3sge cheap so ended up buying an engine out of a 88 corona xl I think. From what I could see all it said on the engine itself was '3s', couldnt see 3sfe or 3sge but its a 2l and had a carb. I was told coronas, vistas or camry and celicas had similar or same engines. Am I able to bolt the 3s block to my 3sge head with the tvis injection? The 3s engine had never been vinned as it was a test car for budding mechanics at a polytech in masterton and it only had 8000ks on it and for $200 thought it was a good deal. I can post more info but need some expert advice/suggestions.

Thanks in advance.

[NZcelica]

ahhhhh your the guy who sent me the e-mails
If your "Camshaft cog on the block" snaped....the closest thing I can think of to that is the crank pulley. VERY odd that that would snap. But if thats happened....Yes the 3S will bolt to the 3SGE head. Not 100% sure but I think the 3S block internals may be slightly weaker so treat it nicely

[dzk]

Yeah it was me mate, hows it going. I have the engine out and saw for myself it had snapped clean off. The blocks look the same but will take your advice on this one. Its been a long process getting this done but hopefully will have the new bock and old head in so I can finally hear the car start. Good spotting!!

[KE20]

it will swap over sweet az. i was running a 3sgte gen2(90-92 i think) head on a 3sge block(gen 1(86-89) and it all went together sweet as.

[Malcolm]

except that 3s-f and 3s-fe engines had a different crank, non-forged I believe, and they have a different flywheel bolt pattern

[dzk]

Will know hopefully by this weekend if everything bolts up. I assume if I use the corona gearbox that I got with the 3s will haven't different ratios to my celica gearbox? I would prefer to use the celica one but don't know what condition any parts of the head/block and gearbox are in and if I had to just wanted to know if I could use the gearbox I got free with the engine. thanks in advance.

Oh yeah, also I was told that I would need a head gasket set or top set? because Im removing the head? Do they really cost that much? Rang repco who quoted me over 300.00 for this engine?

[NZcelica]

Try www.bowdenengineparts.co.nz for a gasket set. Great guy is old Chris.
Corona boxes have the same ratios as celicas I found out. If you want the taller ratios like I had in my celica you'll need a camry/vista box

[KE20]

on the gen 1 3s there are 3 flywheels. a 6 bolt and a 8 bolt, i had both, both from a st162's with 3sgelu's, and the flywheels are different sizes, also the 3sgte one takes a larger clutch. you can get 6 bolt and 8 bolt in the same size and different size,from what i found the 8 bolt was the larger one with different clutch plates,but the 6 was two diiferent sizes,even though the toyota sites saythe3sge is 8 boltand the 3sfe is 6 bolt, all the 3sge's i got had all sizes

[dzk]

Tried that websiite but whenever I click on a link within there its says 'forbidden' will send an email to find out how much Im looking at thanks.

Thanks for the info regarding the gearbox. The goal at this time is just to get it going and from there who knows.

These guys overseas managed to do heaps to there celica st162

http://www.tccn.nl/st162/

[DFECTED]

on the gen 1 3s there are 3 flywheels. a 6 bolt and a 8 bolt, i had both, both from a st162's with 3sgelu's, and the flywheels are different sizes, also the 3sgte one takes a larger clutch. you can get 6 bolt and 8 bolt in the same size and different size,from what i found the 8 bolt was the larger one with different clutch plates,but the 6 was two diiferent sizes,even though the toyota sites saythe3sge is 8 boltand the 3sfe is 6 bolt, all the 3sge's i got had all sizes

both my 3sges are 6 bolt.

Nobodies got any spare crankshafts lying around do they?

[dzk]

I will post the outcome of Sundays results to let you guys know how I went with this in terms of what could/couldn't bolt up. Hopefully everything does and I can get this going. Appreciate all the info. I just didn't think there would be this much to consider in doing this. Are there any tips when doing this like changing plugs like they do when they service this car as it was sitting on a field in Otaki for a couple of months and another month in my own garage? thanks

[dzk]

You were right about the flywheel bolt patterns, the 3sge block had an 8 bolt pattern and the 3s engine block has a six olt pattern, so my 3sge flywheel can't bolt on. Wish I had grabbed the flywheel with the gearbox when I bought the 3s engine. Looks like the wreckers this weekend.

[dzk]

Okay, got the 6 bolt flywheel so gearbox complete. As we were lifting the engine into the drive, the crankshaft seal started to leak a lot of oil so got a replacement crankshaft seal form repco which looked the same apart from the colour of it and they said it was for a 3s engine. Took the original part in for them to measure and got the part. So put the new seal on yesterday and went to lift engine back into drive bay and leaked again. Could it be a faulty seal or something else we haven't checked. Someone mentioned the block could be pressurised after describing what happened yesterday but not familiar with this 'pressurised problem' Am I missing something as we were quite careful in putting the seal in. Going to try another seal perhaps purchase from toyota to see if thats the problem but can anyone think of anything else to check?

thanks

[KE20]

are you sure its from the crank shaft seal, cause the bolt holes for the flywheel go through, so if a flywheel bolt is not in it will leak through there.

[Mr Revhead]

the flange the flywheel bolts to is OUTSIDE the crank case.....

[dzk]

Been awhile since I posted regarding this. Still haven't managed to get someone to come round and put this engine in. Have replaced the seal but was also advised to check crankshaft ventilation case isn't blocked which might cause this oil to be pushed up through the crankshaft seal. The oil has been drained but Im going get whoever puts this engine to check this as well. I do have another question. The shims on the head (3sge head) look a bit worn, are the shims universal? I have the other head (3sf carb head corona gl/xl) Can I just put these shiny new shims in? They are the same size but will it have any negative affect? I was told after I had the head off as well and the camshafts that certain parts would need to be torqued? Thanks in advance and for your advice.

[sergei]

OK, crank shaft seal problem, happend to me aswell, twice (once on 3sge other on 3sgte).
THERE ARE 2 (TWO) REAR CRANK SHAFT SEAL SIZES for 3S!!! for first generation you need one with smaller inner diamater! actally here are the dimensions: 85 x 105 x 10.

[sergei]

How do you know that shims are worn?
Did you had it running? if so does it make tapped noise?
if you havn't had it running did you measure the clearences?
It is possible to replace shims without unbolting anything from head, just use 2 screwdriver to push the bucket and dig out shim...

[dzk]

When I bought it it wasn't running, was told was cambelt so I thought it was to easy fix, The original 3sge block had a snapped crankshaft cog or something. So bougt a 3sf engine and swapped the heads, 3sf block with 3sge head. Had one mechanic look at as there was alot of gunk in the head and in the camshaft area. So gave it a clean but he said the shims were worn, like there are alot of marks and etchings on them, the head is now back on but hasn't been torqued as I need someone to come over and put it in but also to have a look at this crankshaft ventilation or something because Im sure I have had both size seals purchased and the 2nd bought one should be okay. Will hopefully have a mechanic lined up this week to finally put this engine in. Only reason I bought the other engine is because it had only done nine thousand k's

[sergei]

BTW 3SFE uses slightly different cam belt gear, it has square teeth compare to 3SGE wich are round, might wear out more the cam belt then usual, and whine a lot...