Differences between blue top TVIS and red top TVIS/non-TVIS

[Stealer Of Souls]

Okay... Tried searching for answers... but after about six pages got bored of reading titles...

I recently acquired an old 4AGE block which was suspected to be a bluetop block. I'm planning to rebuild it (good learning experience for me!!) and want to try and make sure of what I've got.

I know the non-TVIS have smallport head.
What are the physical differences in the block between a TVIS redtop, TVIS bluetop and the non-TVIS redtop?
Is there differences in the head between TVIS redtop and TVIS bluetop?
How can I confirm what I have? (detail descriptions welcomed)

[thaphatty]

red top non tvis has external oil drain, 7 rib, oil squirters up the bore, 42mm main journals, slightly bigger oil pump, thread for knock sensor

red top tvis has no external oil drain or squirters, still 7 rib, 40mm main journals

blue top tvis has 3 ribs, 40mm main journals

[Drifter4ag]

correction ..
redtop tvis has 42mm .. so large crank ..large rods ..large bearings .. 9.4:1 bluetop pistons with 20mm pin
IE THIS MOTOR SUCKS

You are better off rebuilding the bluetop engine if going for a stock rebuild .. unless you are going to put either aftermarket forgies or redtop pistons in that 7rib block. As the low comp and heavy internals makes for a low powered engine.

Redtop tvis is rated at 120ps in map sensor form
and will struggle to get over 80kw@wheels

where a bluetop stock will make the same power as a redtop in good condition.

[Stealer Of Souls]

So both types of redtop use the same block (42mm)... Cool. I thought so...

Now, this rib thing. 3 on the blue top block, and 7 on the red top. How do I tell? What do these ribs look like? Are they obvious as hell? I think I got a red top block cause it looks like it has 7 ribs on the opposite side of the block to where the oil filter sits.
Is this where I should be looking?

Also. I was thinking of getting the engine bored out to 82mm. Are there any OS sized pistons available (other than forgies $2k for a set new!!!)?
Or is this a bad idea? (unreliable etc)?

Hmmm... maybe should've grabbed the block I suspected was a bluetop...

[spencer]

the ribs are obvious as when looking on the opposite side to the filter. As far as os pistons go ask mr revhead he can give you details of factory over sizes and cost. As for forgies if you shop around wiscos can be found for less that $1g

[Mr Revhead]

factory o/s is 0.5mm
very few (mainly diesels) have any other size avail

[Jebus]

What about Cam Shafts.

Does the Red Top TVIS use cams the same as a blue top 240 degree, or the same as smallport 232 degree?

Cheers

[Mr Revhead]

the same as the smallport engines

also all 4agzes use the same cams as the n/a versions, with the aw11 4agze having the later ae92 cams

basiclly theres 2 types of cams for 16v 4ages
the bluetop n/a has one, and all the others share the other version

[Jebus]

Can gains be had by using blue top cams in the TVIS red top? (similar to what many people do to GZE's)

[Stealer Of Souls]

I thought the ribs would be obvious.
So I've got a early model redtop (poo block)...

What sort of price range are the OS pistons for a set? Do they alter compression at all? I noticed the aftermarket TODA ones raise compression to around 11:1 or a little more. But they were the set I saw for $2k, and frankly I don't wanna spend that sort of money unless I go turbo...

[ChaosAD]

the same as the smallport engines

also all 4agzes use the same cams as the n/a versions, with the aw11 4agze having the later ae92 cams

basiclly theres 2 types of cams for 16v 4ages
the bluetop n/a has one, and all the others share the other version

Redtop TVIS cams have the same lift as bluetop cams but have a different part number

[Mr Revhead]

ahh same part number = same cam

[ChaosAD]

but are the redtop non tvis and redtop tvis cams the same part#?

[Jebus]

Now im confused a shave heard about 3 different answers. Are there gains using Blue top cams in a Red top TVIS?

[Mr Revhead]

its very very simple:

basiclly theres 2 types of cams for 16v 4ages
the bluetop n/a has one, and all the others share the other version

[Drifter4ag]

im sure there are gains .. but they are sweet f/a .. if you have nothing up your sleeve then go for it ..bluetop cams are cheap and easy install .. but again ..its about 1/2hours work and all depends if you can spend the time.

[ChaosAD]

its very very simple:

basiclly theres 2 types of cams for 16v 4ages
the bluetop n/a has one, and all the others share the other version

The debate continues. I always thought that too, until I measured the lift of the red/blacktop ones to find they had the same lift as the bluetop and was refered to the club4ag site which listed the red/blacktop as sharing the bluetop cams. Does anyone definately know for sure?

[Mr Revhead]

where abouts there does it say that?
the only thing i can find doesnt actually list the redtop tvis cam.

the difference in lift is f**k all. .4mm so how accurate was your measuring?

untill now iv never heard any suggestion that the ae92 tvis cams were the same as the early aw11/ae82 ones

[ChaosAD]

I had the cams on a cylinder head, sat a dialgauge on the lobes and turned the cams. Out of four bluetop cams and two red/blacktop cams the difference in lift was within 0.01mm. It was a mid '87 red/blacktop which was in mint unmolested condition apart from a rusted water jacket.

Maybe toyota had a few bluetop cams leftover? As I know for sure that Toyota made halfcast red/blacktop-bluetop engines.

[Mr Revhead]

yeah its quite possible there was a few left over. bugger all though id think.

how do you mean halfcast blue/redtops??