Once again a " Would This Work" topic by no_8wire.

[no_8wire]

I was looking a spare stock intake maifold today and thought
"how pathetic" the quality etc of the casting roughness of ports etc....


So I have to ideas, one which will cost far more than the other and I need some advie on if they will work with out destroying my engine...

Idea no.1

Double throttle bodies...

this idea is based on the thought more air+faster delivery= more HP

What it would involve is to a stock TVIS mainfold cutting the end (which doesnt have the throttle body) off and welding another throttle body on...


now the piping from the two throtlle bodies would join and then go to the airflow meter etc...

So the system would go like this...
filter---MAP/AFM-----spilt in to two pipes----throttle bodies on each side of the manifold.

Would this cause the engine to run lean? or would it run fine because all the air is still running past the air sensor?

Also would the turblence(sp) be a problem with air coming from two sides?
If it was would a plate welded in to separte intakes 1-2 and 3-4 solve that?


Idea no.2

Tubular manifold....

Most people when they start to modify the car is extrators...
Why doesnt anyone think about flow on the intake side?

The stock cant have a very good delivery system with the ports closest reciveing more air faster than those on the far side...


How about sort of a reverse extracgtor system? that goes
throttle body--1-2-4-8( on bigport models)

?

What do you guys think?

Or am I just going crazy lying in the sun trying to study and thinking about my car?

[Santa'sBoostinSleigh]

one of my mates had a duel intake type system on his race car

it pretty much was a throttle body with the 'blank' end cut off and another butterfly/intake attached onto it.
both intake pipes had a pod on them
i cant remember if it was MAP or AFM tho
(civic with a 2.2 poolude motor in it)

time to put my ms paint skills to work i think
*watch this space*

edit: ok i dont need to, 5 secs of googling:

from: http://www.rpw.com.au/Performance%20Upg ... a102tb.htm

[RomanV]

Idea no.2

Tubular manifold....

Most people when they start to modify the car is extrators...
Why doesnt anyone think about flow on the intake side?

Some engines come like this already.

Generation 4 3SGE (Altezza motor, & redtop) has tubular intake runners, with bell mouths inside the pressed metal plenum.

Id say the reason it isnt done more often is cost.

I dont doubt that its a pretty good idea however!
If youve got the $$ for it.

[no_8wire]

Santa'sBoostinSleigh thats nearly exactly what I mean...except the air pipes would be joined together until they have passed the AFM/MAP...

[Santa'sBoostinSleigh]

could you run duel AFM's or something?

or have a setup that doesnt need them?

i could, and probably am wrong, but isnt the MAP, manifold absolute pressure, and hence is measure in the manifold, not in the intake pipe(s)?

[Jebus]

i could, and probably am wrong, but isnt the MAP, manifold absolute pressure, and hence is measure in the manifold, not in the intake pipe(s)?

Youre correct on that one

[RomanV]

I cant see any advantage to a dual throttle setup, how you propose.

If you're going to have to convert it to MAP sensor anyway, you may as well just go for some quads.

And unless you made the throttles half the area each, you would lose throttle control....

As at 40% throttle originally, you have 40% air coming through (well not exactly, its a lot more complicated than that.... but for example)

If you had 2 throttles that were the same diameter as the original, at 40% throttle you'd effectively be at 80% throttle!

Which would make the car rather twitchy I would imagine.

[Santa'sBoostinSleigh]

I cant see any advantage to a dual throttle setup, how you propose.

If you had 2 throttles that were the same diameter as the original, at 40% throttle you'd effectively be at 80% throttle!

Which would make the car rather twitchy I would imagine.

thats just contradicting yourself

[Jebus]

You could maybe hook them up so one of the opens up and acts as secondarys, so one is used until your each 75% throttle then the other begins to open. But yeh as RomanV says, not really worth it.

[RomanV]

I cant see any advantage to a dual throttle setup, how you propose.

If you had 2 throttles that were the same diameter as the original, at 40% throttle you'd effectively be at 80% throttle!

Which would make the car rather twitchy I would imagine.

thats just contradicting yourself

Thats not a good thing... it would make your throttle more like an on/off switch.

Which would be a bit dangerous on any car with a reasonable amount of power.

Also when a single throttle is at 80% open, it would be less restrictive than 2 at 40%.... if you think about the turbulence that would generated by a throttle plate sitting less than halfway open.

[Stealer Of Souls]

What are you trying to achieve?
What is the car/engine? By quickly reading the posts it's a bluetop 4AGE with TVIS?

My thoughts...
Idea 1:
1) If you were to run two TBs but only one filter, the inlet pipe (from filter to split) would need to be significantly large in order to allow more flow.
2) Since one induction path is longer than the other that may have some issues.
3) It would probably improve the evenness of the air speed the cylinders see, but I think a bigger limitation would be that the engine will only want to breath a certain amount. By creating more intake space the velocity of the air stream will decrease. Approx same demand but twice the area to pull air through.

Idea 2:
I reckon the traditional plenum/runners design is quite good. Reverse "extractors" (intractors?) would have longer inlet tract lengths and without the plenum might have the issue of flow inversions/drawing air from other cylinders reducing their effectiveness.


I reckon a goer of an idea might be the combination of these two ideas...

A split plenum with separate air feeds and runners that have a sort of reverse extractor design...
If you group cylinders 1/2 and 3/4 into separate mini-plenums. The runners can be proper designs with bell mouths and all.
Run two throttle bodies and two inlet tracts to an air filter box. This would eliminate the separate intake phases fighting for air flow. If the throttle bodies face directly toward the runners air velocity would be maintained...

Heck. Why not even go for dual length tuned intake runners...

Just a thought...

[Si]

looks like that proton would get nice airflow from the right hand filter......
sitting behind the battery away from airflow

[Truenotch]

Aw11 air filters have no airflow anyway... Mines behind the battery.


But I think this could work, bu would take too much stuffing around as it hasnt been done.

[Stealer Of Souls]

But I think this could work, bu would take too much stuffing around as it hasnt been done.

I think that's the best part. It hasn't been done...

[CozmoNz]

:D Aw11 air filters have no airflow anyway... Mines behind the battery.


But I think this could work, bu would take too much stuffing around as it hasnt been done.

N/a's didnt have the hole in the boot did they? where the s/c air box runs into?

mines just bringing air in from the boot (which gets air from the sidevent)... and very little heat gets in there in comparason to the engine bay. maybe you could mount a poddie in the boot if you have a rubber bung there? (they are all aw's after all) But yeh, im not sure .

[RomanV]

Im sure it has... But there is a reason you wouldnt have heard about it.

People generally dont like to talk about expensive projects that actually decrease performance.

[no_8wire]

What are you trying to achieve?
What is the car/engine? By quickly reading the posts it's a bluetop 4AGE with TVIS?

1988 AW11 with redtoop TVIS....
Aim get some extra power for little or no cost( got all parts etc already)

2) Since one induction path is longer than the other that may have some issues.

They would be same length...the intake pipes would curve down to meet under the manifold join to 0ne the run to air filter.

N/a's didnt have the hole in the boot did they

Yes all facelift AW11s had the airfilter located in the boot.

I reckon a goer of an idea might be the combination of these two ideas...

Sounds ok but Im wanting to do this for little as possible $...seeing as it is only a 88kw motor and all...

[Stealer Of Souls]

They would be same length...the intake pipes would curve down to meet under the manifold join to 0ne the run to air filter.

Oh. Fair enough then. I retract my statement about different lengths...

[DVLRCR]

2 words, good luck!

[RomanV]

N/a's didnt have the hole in the boot did they

Yes all facelift AW11s had the airfilter located in the boot.
:

Do you have any pics of this? Sounds interesting.
SW20s have their intake down by the left air vent.