car fires up, then revs drop and stalls. will not run. help!

[lofreq]

hi guys... im currently in NP swapping my 1GEU to a 1GGTE and i am stuck, physically everything is in and hooked up, but she will not run.

i really need your electrics help!

im not sure if toyotas prime the fuel system before every start but im sure i dont hear the car priming the fuel before i try to crank. when i crank it, there is a 50% chance it will fire, or not. soemtimes it will just crank with nothing happening. sometimes it will fire, rev up to esimated 1500rpm, then slowly decend in revs until it stalls. pumping the gas pedal just makes it stall faster. if we do not manually hold in the AFM flap to prime the fuel, it seems to not fire at all.

so this is what we have to do currently - to get it to start, first someone stands at the motor and holds the AFM flap open for a few secs, about 5 secs to prime the fuel. then i crank it, it (sometimes) fires up, then the person at the AF has to press the flap in more and hold it open at a bigger angle, to maintain the motor running. while doing this she runs at what sounds like a high idle. if we press the flap open too much, it gurgles and stalls. if we let the flap go, it gurgles and stalls. if i try to even touch the throttle to get revs up, it dies almost instantly.

motor is from a 1989 GZ20 soarer. 3rd gen 1GGTE with the grey loom. car recieving it is my 1987 markII, WAS running the 1GEU in it. MOST of the plugs in the engine bay plugged in without incident. we had to rewire the dash loom from the markII to plug into the engine loom of the 1GGTE in order to get oil pres, water temp, etc going, as well as starter, coil/igniter power, etc etc. fuel pump relay and AFM signal was also rewired. as much as we could, we mostly tried to color match the wires

we are getting spark, and fuel. we are not sure about the injector ballast resistor, where to plug it in. right now we based the wiring on that from the soarer and tried to wire the ballast resistor in line to the resistors, this didnt change the symptoms above. we are running stock 1GGTE FPR and fuel pump from the soarer.

it all seems to be the AFM. somehow it seems not aligned with the motor - the motor doesnt know how to run properly without us manually adjusting the AFM flap. we tried loosening/tightening the flap tension, this changed things slightly but not much. i will return it to stock position.

from what i have described, what could this be? im still assuming its the AFM somehow $&#$% up the ECU and not telling the car what air and fuel to run. if i am right how do i troubleshoot this, and find out whats going on? the AFM seems to be getting the 0-5V on one cable and then 12v on the end which seems to feed the fuel pump... im just at a loss what to do or why the AFM only runs the motor when manually actuated.

i was meant to drive back to auckland for xmas by friday but the motor has been in since sunday and we have been fighting the wiring ever since... ANYTHING i can try would help immensley!

please help!

nige

[Malcolm]

do you have any air leaks between AFM and throttle body? sounds like it could be that

[lofreq]

have checked for air leaks and plugged up all open barbs. would an air leak cause motor to die when you try to rev it..?

[Silent Knight]

In my 1G I had a similar problem but it only lasted untill the engine was properly warmed up. When I started the car it would instantly die again unless I held the revs on 4K+ for a minute or so untill she warmed up.

Found out it was an air leak in the TB causing the issue....this is the first place I'd look...

[lofreq]

ok rechecked all vacuum leaks im sure there are none. tightened all clamps etc. i cant even use throttle to get revs up, the second u hit gas, she bogs and dies.

we seem sure that its the AFM telling the ECU the wrong story, and its a wiring thing - just dont know enough about it to pinpoint where to look... my first time with AFM cars - have only worked on MAP cars before :/

[lofreq]

In my 1G I had a similar problem but it only lasted untill the engine was properly warmed up. When I started the car it would instantly die again unless I held the revs on 4K+ for a minute or so untill she warmed up.

Found out it was an air leak in the TB causing the issue....this is the first place I'd look...

You sure thats not the fact there was no oil in it and you ran a big end bearing?

[Malcolm]

have you checked for ecu error codes?

[lofreq]

we checked ECU initially and got codes 62, 63 and 64 - but these codes dont even exist on the error code lists for the 1ggte i could find - they only go up to 40 or 50 somethign???

vacuum leak was mentioned by a few people already - been over the plenum and all hoses attached carefully - i dont believe there is anything leaking.

other issue is the injector ballast resistor. it was on the original soarer, but it plugged into the soarer's body loom, not engine loom. when the motor came across there was no place for it to plug in - so we werent sure what to do with it. using some logic and educated guesses we figured to put it in line with the 12v that feeds the injector rail...... but then we werent srue we HAVE that same wire resisted now or not. we think we do but again dont have any way to verify this or compare against it. :/

we have bypassed fuel pump relay and run fuel pump all the time, this hasnt helped... it really seems AFM is screwing up somehow??? otherwise i cannot think what else it is. would a FAULTY AFM cause these symptoms (only run at one setting, motor dies at any other flap position, or any use of throttle...)?? need to know what the symptoms point to...

[Malcolm]

faulty afm's can do all sorts of things, it would certainly be worth trying another

was the motor running fine when you removed it from the other car?

[Malcolm]

did a quick google, are you converting the 1g-gte from auto to manual?

Code 62 is defective/severed solenoid No1
Code 63 is defective/severed solenoid No2
Code 64 is defective/severed lock-up solenoid

taken from here
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/t109337.html


just looking again, it says they're DTC codes, don't know what that means...?

[Silent Knight]

You sure thats not the fact there was no oil in it and you ran a big end bearing?

Yup...this was in the 2nd engine.

[2LTR Rona]

just looking again, it says they're DTC codes, don't know what that means...?

would probably mean....Diagnostic Trouble Codes

[Fraud]

Do 1g's have throttle position sensors?

If so, if you are holding the AFM flap open with out throttle, of course the ECU is getting confused. The AFM is telling it that it is flowing x amount of air, so pumps in x amount of fuel to compensate, but the throtlle is aying it should only be idling at x amount of revs running x amount of fuel/air.
Unplug AFM, and see what symptoms it has.
Also, the fuel lines aren't pinched anywhere? And your certain the FPR vacuum lines are linked the right way?
Dizzy isn't 180 out?
It doesn't sound like a vacuum leak to me, if it was you'd possibly find the revs to jump around while running (not run a consistent idle) or run super low revs without stalling.
My two cents, hopefully something useful there?
If I'm wrong please don't bag me!

[lofreq]

the 1ggte was in a soarer that WAS auto. then the soarer went manual, then the motor came out of the soarer into my mark II which was manual also. perhaps then those codes are only for the auto gearbox which is no longer plugged in (i have 2/3 plugs hanging loose from engine loom to where they used to go to the auto box presumably) - if this is all then i guess i can ignore those codes.

motor was running fine in the other car before it was pulled out. seems strange if the AFM died in between. we checked the wires on the AFM and they seem to be functioning - 12v to the fuel pump triggers fine, the 5V signal comes in and varies when the flap is moved, etc etc. i dont know how else to test it but from the signals coming from it it SEEMs operational...

yes, the 1ggte has a TPS. and, understood, the AFM doesnt know whats going on if i manually push the flap while not pressing throttle. however, this is the point - the AFM will not run the car without being manipulated. car will only run when i manually hold the flap open at a certain position, with throttle on idle. if i hold flap in more, or release it, motor dies gradually (slowly loses revs, splutters, dies). if i try to rev motor using throttle, engine dies very suddenly.

unplugged AFM, still no start, no difference.
i will re-check fuel lines but when we had a loose fuel feed line it spat fuel out everywhere quite rapidly on cranking so its not totally blocked if it is at all.

cant find vacuum leak anywhere. it SOUNDS like the motor runs/idles quite high, when we do get it running by holding the flap (estimated 1500-2000rpm, not sure as we cannot get the tach to work) - however motor will run while holding flap manually, perhaps up to a minute or more - so when the signal from AFM is correct, she runs (idles) smooth and fine. can a motor run smooth for over a minute with a dizzy out 180?

wish i had a replacement AFM so i could swap and test! will only have access to one perhaps when i get back to AKL!

thanks for all the help so far... any other ideas from these symptoms guys?

[Fraud]

Sometimes can, sometimes can't. Was working on a honda the other day (yes I know, completely different kettle of fish!) and with dizzy out 180 it was doing some VERY strange things.

How long between being in the Soarer running, and now? ie. conversion time?
If the AFM has been dropped or knocked about, you will find it is likely to be no good! Pity you haven't got any access to another one. And I guess with out it running on, you can't check the TPS position either.
Have you had the inlet manifold and TPS off the head at all, or did you leave motor complete, pull out, drop in?

[lofreq]

believe it has been sitting for about 4mo at the most, since last ran. it has been out of the car maybe half that time sitting in the garage.

the whole motor was kept together, head, inlet mani, turbos and exhaust,vac lines, sump - everything as is. AFM may have been knocked about but not majorly. its not cracked or anything, and it IS giving out a signal/powering the fuel pump etc...


i traced the wires on the AFM - confirmed 6 wires going to my AFM, earth, fuel pump +12, Vs, Vc, E2, and ThA - all trace correctly to the ECU plugs which we did not mess with so they are in the same order they were when it was working in the soarer. checked each one and the connections are good from AFM till ECU. looks like the ECU is reading off the AFM correctly.

can only then assume the AFM is $&#$% up its signal and sending the ECU the wrong info...

really curious as to the cause of the prob now, i really want to learn what we missed as it seems we've covered everything!??

i'll go spin the dizzy round 180 for a laugh.

[Fraud]

i'll go spin the dizzy round 180 for a laugh.

You never know!

I'll have a chat to the guy thats done all my wiring jobs tonight, as he loves toyota motors, and see if he knows of a common fault that may come up. Hes a genius with this sort of stuff so any good feed back I'll let you know

Brett

[deaf_rattle]

what cond is the intercooler in?
check all the intercooler piping. sounds like you could have a leak there.

My 7mgte did similar things when the i/c pipe blew up

[rxtoy]

did you take the TPS off???? i had issues with my mitsi cause i took it off and when i put it back on i didn't line the notch up properly so when the throttle was actually moving it was sending a false reading to the computer and it would just die. could be worth a look

good luck
Matt

[lofreq]

hi all - im back in auckland now. had car trailered back to auckland with my mates in NP's help. problem stil remains so i am still hunting for solutions. i rotated the dizzy, this didnt change anything. just wouldnt fire at all. possible culprits are air leaks since my intercooler plumbing is pretty rough... or injectors not firing - (i dont know where to install the injector ballast resistor still!)

the car doesnt seem to prime the fuel line for a few secs before the car starts. im not sure if its supposed to.

when i crank it, she fires up sweet, revs up, then within about 5 secs revs smoothly fall to nothing and motor stalls. it sounds like it fires and runs on the cold start injector, then no other fuel flows in the motor and she just dies from fuel starve.

if this is the case what is causing the injectors not to open? they are getting 12V fine, and both banks terminate at the ECU end as expected so i can only think that the incorrect installation of the injector ballast resistor is to blame?? does this sound right??