4AGE block differences: smallport redtop Vs silvertop

[Stealer Of Souls]

Hey all.
Having read through all the 4AGE FAQ I have determined that the cranks are the same.
Are the blocks themselves the same? Or are there small differences. The club 4AG site lists the redtop as having:
Reinforced block, oil return nozzle.
And the silvertop as having:
Stiffener boss

I know all the changes in the redtop also carry through to the silvertop. What's the deal with the stiffener boss? What's it good for?

[Vertigo]

youre really asking the wrong question, as blocks and heads have been mixed and matched many times by now. my block is a 7-rib.

4AGE Blocks
There are basically two types of 4AGE blocks; The ones that are just single cam blocks used for twin cam work and have three ribs on the side, and the small port, 4AGZE, and 20v blocks which have seven ribs. The three rib blocks can only been overbored a small amount, roughly 1mm or 0.040", (82mm total) and the seven rib blocks can go a bit further to 2mm or 0.080". (83mm total) An important note though is that the bigger the bore and/or the more power the engine is making, the more blow-by you'll be getting. I doubt if it's worth boring the block out to try to get more capacity for that reason.
The 20v blocks are reputed to be a slightly different shape around the flywheel area, so that a 16v sump won't bolt straight on. But with some small mods they can be made to fit, I've heard.
The seven rib blocks on the small port 4AGE's also have an oil return pipe on the right-rear from the back of the head. The 4AGZE's & 20v's have the 'bump' in the block for that hole, but it's solid cast metal there instead.
Another good feature of the seven rib blocks is that they have an oil-squirter system that pumps oil onto the bottom of the pistons, thus helping cool them.
There's no other differences between all the blocks.

[Vertigo]

theres more on cranks and things here

[Stealer Of Souls]

Actually that little excerpt clears up a good detail I hadn't considered...

See I have three blocks...
Smallport red top
Silvertop
Bluetop (currently in car).

I'm having to recondition the blue top cause it's got issues and was trying to determine which block to use how.
I intend to recondition one engine to replace my blue top, then recondition the blue top for sale then use the third block to start to build a turbo setup. Exactly which block for which job becomes a little messy. I had a fourth block (bigport red top), but that block was too shagged (not unexpected, it was a freebie) to be worth trying to use and I've only just picked up the smallport....

Hence the decision. Which block should I recondition to replace my blueie and which to keep for the turbo.
Oh yeah. I intend to keep the blueie replacement for a while as a spare NA engine in case things go horribly wrong with the turbo motor during use...

But since the silvertop doesn't have the external drain I think I'll use that one to make the blueie replacement and the smallport block for the turbo... Problem solved... I think...

[Drifter4ag]

sheet ..
use the small port redtop block

assuming it has rods and crank in it

buy some ze pistons off revhead ..
assembled with pistons & rings is probably on $1k all up
done

bleutop block will hold many beans of power ..around 350hp

dont beat around the bush if youve got the bits just go straight for the hole and pound away.

[Low_Aa63]

so does the t-vis red top have oil cooled pistons?

[Stealer Of Souls]

I'm assuming you're talking about the forced induction engine.
The redtop is complete... And yeah. I think I'll use that one to make up the FI block.

In the mean time to replace my bluey (while I shop for all parts: turbo, manifolds, IC, ECU, piping, fuel stuff etc etc etc etc etc) I'll use the silvertop block/crank so that I can assemble an engine out of the car and just swap them over, then sell off the old bluey.

A little of subject.
What do people think about Blacktop rods? Good? Bad? Just plain Ugly? Any good for 200hp 8500rpm FI?


No. TVIS red top doesn't have piston coolers.

[Drifter4ag]

blacktop rods
NO GOOD

build the ze up first dont waste your money on the bluetop( as much as i love bluetops)

use the time that you are collecting parts to run the ze engine in

[Mr Revhead]

Any good for 200hp 8500rpm FI?

recipce for spaghetti: take black top rods, add the above, wait 5 mins.



going by your list of parts id go with drifters advice.

[Stealer Of Souls]

blacktop rods
NO GOOD
build the ze up first dont waste your money on the bluetop( as much as i love bluetops)
use the time that you are collecting parts to run the ze engine in

Ah ha! I see... Cheers.
SO what are black top rods good for? 200hp wouldn't be far from their supposed factory output. And being the lightweight rods I would've thought they'd be better for high RPM...
Are they just too weak for the high rpm?

[Mr Revhead]

well 200 is about 40ish or so off stock
its not the power that kills them, its revs.
sustained 8000rpm kills them.
usually resulting in 2 holes in the block

[Stealer Of Souls]

Hmm... That's a pity...
So what sort of hp can they take before they become a banana (or worse)?

[Drifter4ag]

if they were good rods then lyn rogers would use them in his motors he builds for customers .. .my friends motor ... he had to go with the thin size 20v silvertop rods and lyn said .. DO NOT BUY BLACK TOP RODS ...
that motor has 220ps

[Stealer Of Souls]

Oh okay..
That's cool.
That's such a pity...

[Punter]

the thin size 20v silvertop rods

Sorry to hijack but I was led to believe that silvertop rods were the same as GZE rods, is this true or just more blatent internet bullshit.

Rob.

[Mr Revhead]

they are the same

[ezy10s]

the thin size 20v silvertop rods

Sorry to hijack but I was led to believe that silvertop rods were the same as GZE rods, is this true or just more blatent internet bullshit.

Oh dear here we go again!
Remember we had this conversation before- ze runs 3 different rods, one of which is the same as the silvertops.
aw11ze runs a different type to all others
ae92ze has 2 different types depending on when it was put together(the later having the same as 20v silvertop)
ae101ze runs same as 20v silvertop

ae92 tvis redtop bigport does not run same rods as ze or 20v

[sergei]

they are the same

[Stealer Of Souls]

Not really a hijack...

[Punter]

they are the same

Well that clears that up, I sure wouldn't call 'em "thin".
The GZE rods I've seen were bloddy massive.