How good are GT4?

[DXROLLA]

Looking at buying a 1994 gt4 done 77000kms how do they compare to a gtir pulsar or a non sti wrx? And are they any good as far as handling goes?

[Jazza]

I would give my left eye for a GT4

[crnkin]

supposedly they have a few problems, i know with the st185s, maybe they are the same for the 205's?

-cluctches suck
-centre diffs suck
-gearboxes suck
-heavy pigs
-crap on gas

There was a thread a while ago, i wanted one, but decided against it. However they would still be a cool car, if the above things are addressed and sorted. At 77 k's id expect it to be in pretty good condition. Remember car prices are only gonna drop more!

[sergei]

well, I don't have problem with clutch on my ST165, but it is not stock (TRD).
I don't have problems with handling in my ST165, but it is not stock (bilstein).
My ST165 does not have any problems with gearbox or center diff, but it is ST205 unit...
My ST165 is not very heavy, but it is stripped and has sound deadning removed...
My ST165 is not very heavy on gas, avg 13L/100Kms, mixed driving, funny enough all my engine mods should increase the fuel consumption, but infact it did not changed. (no TVIS, no FPR solenoid, no FP resistor, higher boost, different ECU).

Theese cars are actually very good with some "preventative" maintainance.
I would choose GT4 (st165 or 205) over any GSR/WRX/VR4/323...

[crnkin]

well, I don't have problem with clutch on my ST165, but it is not stock (TRD).
I don't have problems with handling in my ST165, but it is not stock (bilstein).
My ST165 does not have any problems with gearbox or center diff, but it is ST205 unit...
My ST165 is not very heavy, but it is stripped and has sound deadning removed...
My ST165 is not very heavy on gas, avg 13L/100Kms, mixed driving, funny enough all my engine mods should increase the fuel consumption, but infact it did not changed. (no TVIS, no FPR solenoid, no FP resistor, higher boost, different ECU).

Theese cars are actually very good with some "preventative" maintainance.
I would choose GT4 (st165 or 205) over any GSR/WRX/VR4/323...

hehe - exactly, with these mods it will prove to be much better

[AJz]

supposedly they have a few problems, i know with the st185s

-cluctches suck
-centre diffs suck
-gearboxes suck
-heavy pigs
-crap on gas

1 - Not if you treat them properly, and dont pick one up thats been used to race anything with shiny wheels from the traffic lights
2 - I havnt had much trouble with mine, ive only had it a month tho so i havnt got hard into the cornering limits yet.
3 - Again if you can find one that is in good nick ur fine, the reason they get that way is the knobs that try and rape the ballz off them
4 - Yes they are, upping the boost quickly solves that problem
5 - For a 68lt tank, yes they arnt the best on gas, though if you are able to train yourself to not boot it at every intersection, then you will be fine. Is there such thing as a turbo car that is GOOD on fuel when giving it shit, i think not.

(end of rant from defensive ST185 owner)

i would like my next car to be a ST205 and i plan to go that way, different turbo, revision III 3sgte.

As per stacking it up to a wrx or gtir, no idea, couple of the guys on here have some pretty nice 205's Gary's and Riddles are prob the nicest from memory. Ask them about performance wise but from memory they both aint that stock

[RunningRich]

-clutches suck
-centre diffs suck
-gearboxes suck
-heavy pigs
-crap on gas

Well having owner two GT-Fours for over 10 years (a ST165 and a ST205) I believe I'm qualified to answer!

Clutches. What sucks? Stock they do what they are asked to do. I've never had one slip. All of my clutch failures have been due to driven plate failure (aftermarket quality issues) or bad workmanship. I've never exceeded a clutch and with the right parts selection you won't either.

Centre diffs. Please elaborate. I have never heard of any diff issues on streetcars.

Gearboxes. You will be hard pressed to find a stronger gearbox. They don't break. The synchros wear out (like every other toyota) but again that has as much to do with poor oil selection and lack of care. Compare that to WRX gearboxes which are weak as piss

Heavy pigs. Both the ST165 and ST205 are just under 1400kg. About the same as the new EVOs. If you compare them to the weight of something like a GSR you have to consider how cheaply and lightly built the GSR's are. The GT-Four has a higher class interior with better quality plastics etc. The '96 GSR (which my gf had for 18 months) is a cheaply built plasticcy piece of junk in comparision and wouldn't hold up to the same abuse. After 180kms GT-Four are still solid, how many WReX are?

Gas. Around town (suburban AKL) I do around 12l/100km. Open road this drops to around 9.5-10. For a 4wd turbo car which is solid on the road (again, more so than a GSR) that is good. If you want gas guzzler and heavy try a GTO (again, I've spent a lot of time driving my GF's one).

If you don't know what you are doing they can be a costly car but there is a lot of knowledge out there now (so much more so than when I got my ST165). An example is clutchh changes. My last one two people had the clutch out 2-1/2 hours after driving into the garage. It's not a big deal with the right technique.

[sergei]

Well I forgot to add that my 165 has over 200000kms on the clock, and still goes strong, does not burn oil, engine is very quiet.

[RunningRich]

And my ST165 has done over 200000kms on the factory turbo with the engine opened up at around 90000kms to replace the head gasket (which was actually questionable whether it had failed). No other long block maintenance.

[RedMist]

Owned a 185 for 6 months. It spent more time broken than on the road.

From beginning to end.
Head Gasket blew.
Clutch cover pressure ring snapped
Water pump
Clutch pedal fell off the firewall.
Second gear synchro began grinding
Diff mount collapsed.
Frost plug blew
Head cracked.

In addition when it did run okay it was a pig. Very heavy and I ABSOLUTELY HATE that bloody viscous center diff. It switches power from front to rear just to piss you off. It'll push one day and be loose the next in identical situations. And its hard to correct either state as the thing is so bloody heavy.
It does however make a very nice long distance tourer... if it gets you there.

[crnkin]

Ill just let the replies speak for themselves

[RunningRich]

It has to be noted that any 16 year old car that is likely to have been subject to abuse over its life is likely to cause trouble. A big issue with GT-Fours is that they are now cheap and disposable, therefore poorly maintained and serviced.

[riddles]

My 94 engine is standard apart from a blow off valve. Bought it in '04 with 92 on the clock and it is now approaching 130. Only thing it has had to have in that time is new brake pads front and back, new rotors on the front and a blown number plate bulb. I've just put some new rubber on with new wheels but the old would have lasted until the next wof at least.

The not so good steering lock means that it isn't as nimble as a Levin at low speed u-turns but I can still get into a parallel park ok. The new wheels are 215 as opposed to the old 235s and this has improved the steering a bit (215 is the recommended width for 17s on the car)

Just been dynoed at between 160-165 at all four wheels with max torque around 4700 RPM and making boost reasonably early on and holding steady right to redline. Last MM it did a 14.23 down meremere with the clutch slipping under the abuse of high rev launches and grippy 235 tyres.

At the lights I find it gives me a 4-5 car length advantage over the nana drivers round here by the time it is up to the speed limit with changes occuring between 3-4k and half throttle.

Weight is more of an advantage than an issue in Wellington with the car sitting nice and steady on the motorway while all others are being knocked from side to side, although in the strongest gales there is the occasional buffet.

I have found it is a rough at low speed but I think that is just my driving style.

Fuel consumption, about hal a tank (35l) lasts me a week round town but on a long trip, say Wellington to Hamilton, a half tank will do from Bulls to Taupo. That is with steady boost on all the hills round Hunterville and Taihape and the turbo timer maxed out over the desert road.

Handling wise the 4WD is a dream, there is a sharp left hander onto a rail embankment on the way to Palmy that I take at 75-80 with no problems and the slowest I take any of the sharp corners on the desert road would be 70 (dependent on traffic of course).

The interior is comfortable and I don't get numb after a long trip as I have in other cars and we generally only stop for gas. The sound system is pretty good, mine came with the factory 8 speaker option and i have upgraded the speakers more for looks than performance but am still running the factory amp at the moment and get good sound output with no distortion at quite high volumes.

So that is the point of view of a layman with no technical knowledge that pushes things pretty hard within the allowed limits.

[riddles]

It has to be noted that any 16 year old car that is likely to have been subject to abuse over its life is likely to cause trouble. A big issue with GT-Fours is that they are now cheap and disposable, therefore poorly maintained and serviced.

A good point Richard, mine was bought with a full service history and a vehicle check and has never given me any issues, hasn't even lost any oil between changes.

If the car they are looking at only has 77ks on the clock it has most likely either been looked after well or has been abused and been off the road lots but a canny buyer can spot these sorts of things before purchase.

All we can do is give advice about the car in general, I have noticed that the better maintained versions are still holding their values quite well despite the influx of imports and this was true of my previous car as well which went for 3k more than expected at auction simply because there were no marks on the paintwork or interior and the engine had been looked after.

[GT4 20]

supposedly they have a few problems, i know with the st185s, maybe they are the same for the 205's?

Perhaps you'd be wiser stating facts rather than idle gossip and let those who actually own or have owned an ST205 to comment?
Gary

[EVLGTZ]

would take a GTIR over a GT4 anyday

[dougsop]

i have a 1997 GT4. it is solid as, very good at cornering. although it is not a 0-100 kmh car but the acceleration is not that bad (if u ar after a 0-100 car go for s14-15), but very good for daily drive.

i can easily lose a bmw or holden at cornering and during rainly day

cost me on average $80 for petrol aprox 400km
with minor mod
*exhaust * bov * filter *catch tank * clutch *17" advan on 215 tyre

replace with exedy heavy duty clutch @ 110000 due to clutch slip

PS: aftermarket parts ar hard to find and expensive

[no_8wire]

i have a 1997 GT4. ...

cost me on average $80 for petrol aprox 400m
with minor mod
*exhaust * bov * filter *catch tank * clutch *17" advan on 215 tyre
.

FAROUT! I knew a 2L turbo would suck gas...but $80 of gas for not even half a kilometre?

[mr_monkey]

would take a GTIR over a GT4 anyday

Ive never had a GT-4 ( have a turbo sw20 atm) but I did have a GTI-R for half a year.

It was an unbelievably huge sack of shit. Even most current GTI-R owners will admit the list below..

They have awesome engines..... but
The chassis is rattly/flimsy/cheap
The interior is rattly/flimsy/cheap
The gearbox is rattly/weak/expensive
The only car i have ever driven which corners worse than a GTI-R is the 1994 Ford laser Lynx owned by my younger sister (it makes me feel sea sick, even when im driving)

IIRC the GTI-R has a 65% frontwards weight bias or somethign stupid. This gives the car huuuge amounts of understeer ... exagerated farthur by the fact its a full time 4wd without any compter controlled stuff.
They failed miserably as a rally car, and drivers were scared to get them airborne as they would nose into the ground on landing.

I could go on forever about the bloody things.

I only reccomend them to people I dont like.

-Nathan

[Dell'Orto]

would take a GTIR over a GT4 anyday

Thats a bold statement It might make good power, and be quicker, but screw owning one. People think changing clutches in GT Fours are bad...