3S Engines

[gtpornstar]

Power and handling questions -

Anyone know whats the most HP a 3SGE Engine has produced ?
Any records for All motor drag racers with one of these motors ?

With a 3SGTE
What HP will the gearbox handle ? (I hear E-153 is the mac daddy box)
What have people used for trannies with big HP setups ?


Thinking of building a high hp car, not sure what motor and box to use though.

[RomanV]

Power and handling questions -

Anyone know whats the most HP a 3SGE Engine has produced ?

The TRD 3SGE makes 270hp. You'd be pushing for more than that.

Any records for All motor drag racers with one of these motors ?

Not that I know of, people tend to go straight for the turbo motor if they're interested in drag racing.

[gtpornstar]

So no one has run a 3S FWD all motor ?

Sure can go straight for the turbo motor but thats what everyone does

[RomanV]

Not that I know of.

A K20A is just.... So much better, it's not funny.

If you want to go FWD and all motor, get a honda.
At the end of the day, there's only so much you can do, without having variable lift.

Bear in mind that aftermarket parts for a FWD beams engine are virtually non existant (Believe me, I've looked) while you could order a whole boat load of K20A parts, with no two being the same.

go have a look at k20a.org, they are doing some amazing things with that engine.

Also bear in mind, that IIRC the current NZ all motor 2 litre FWD record is 11.2 seconds

[barryogen]

Also bear in mind, that IIRC the current NZ all motor 2 litre FWD record is 11.2 seconds

thats pretty damn impressive.

[RomanV]

A guy on K20A.org recently got 11.01.... (World record IIRC?)

Sooo close to 10s, it's not funny.

[gtpornstar]

Also bear in mind, that IIRC the current NZ all motor 2 litre FWD record is 11.2 seconds

thats pretty damn impressive.

Really ???

Isnt that kelford cams civic doing mid 10's ?

[barryogen]

a quick google suggests that mid 10s are "reletivly easily attainible" in civics still used on the street... not sure what they're running, not overly interested in straight line racing...

http://www.dragtimes.com/Honda--Civic-Drag-Racing.html
yes I know it's mostly international, and you don't actually have to upload a slip to put your times in.

It seems impressive to me, my car is quick and does a ~14.6(timed with stopwatch so not exact), I'd imagine an 11/mid 10 would be nuts to drive.

[RomanV]

Really ???

Isnt that kelford cams civic doing mid 10's ?

Erm... I'm not entirely sure TBH.

That's an amazing effort if it is!

I thought it was low 11s.

But either way, they're fricken fast, and you need big $$$ to build NA engines to make the sort of power that's necessary to run those times.
Getting into the mid 13s with a FWD 3SGE would be an impressive effort IMO.

[soopachargen]

Getting into the mid 13s with a FWD 3SGE would be an impressive effort IMO.

how hard would it be with a beams motor in a starlet??

[RomanV]

That's a great idea, but it would take some big $$ to get it to a reasonable level.

This is how I'd do it: (More or less, would research it more if I was actually going to...)

1. Auto Beams 3S motor from a GT caldina (Most common beams 3S)
2. Brashboy modified PowerFC to suit (you really need to surpass the factory 7250 rev limit.. and it's the cheapest aftermarket ECU that can control VVTI on this engine.. Still 2.5k though )
3. Engine rebuilt with balanced bottom end, TRD Altezza 13:1 pistons, new gaskets etc. (To make sure it can survive in the high RPM region)
4. Head sent to Kelfords for a cam grind (No aftermarket cams are available that I know of... There are for Altezzas, but not the FWD engine)
5. TRD Altezza 3SGE quad throttle kit (Fits the FWD engine)
6. Phoenix power headers, or custom made
7. EP71 starlet (Because they're cool, and light)
8. Modified MR2 LSD gearbox to suit a FWD
9. Those slicks with sidewalls that crinkle

I reckon you could get into the 12s with that, but it would probably cost you...
Hmm.

Motor = 2k?
ECU = 2.5k + tuning = 1k
rebuild + balance + etc = 5k
cam grind = 1k? dunno
throttle kit = 1.5k
headers = 500
starlet = $1000
Mr2 gearbox = $500
slicks = $2k?

I mean that's 17 grand already, and you can probably safely double that for a realistic cost.
As for how it would go? Well it's anyone's guess really I suppose.
I confess to being not particularly interested in drag racing, so I cant see why you'd want to spend so much on a car that you only get to race for >13 seconds at a time.
A FWD drag car at that level isnt really good for much else.... you'd definitely trailer it there and back.

The 240hpATW beams motor was running on 98 octane, so you'd probably get a bit more running the motor on C16 I suppose?

You'd very likely also need beefier rods than factory, you could probably get some aftermarket 3SGTE rods that would do.
As well as a lot of various other things that I havent thought of.

If you've got the $$ then go for it, but I doubt you'd have a quick 3S powered starlet on a shoe string budget.

If you could find an M/T beams motor from a celica, you could probably get into the mid/high 13s with the stock motor/gearbox wedged into a starlet I reckon.
The only problem being, that there are bugger all manual transmission beams powered celicas around, and even fewer that have crashed. So finding an engine can be a PITA.
If anyone was serious about this, I'd be happy to share any knowledge/info/experience etc that I have with these engines so far.

[Dell'Orto]

Also bear in mind, that IIRC the current NZ all motor 2 litre FWD record is 11.2 seconds

thats pretty damn impressive.

Really ???

Isnt that kelford cams civic doing mid 10's ?

Yes it is, but its also running (or was when it did mid 10s) an H22A and nitrous.

[gtpornstar]

RomanV - Awesome post mate. Thanks for your time, really appreciate it.
I think i will be looking at a FWD Turbo 3S motor then ..... want a tried and test package ... I know boys in the US are pushing 7-800 Hp at the wheels on them in RWD fashion but how close is US hp to NZ Hp and what Hp would you need in a 650Kg Starlet to run a 9 ? yes Im talking non streetable. Dedicated 10sec bursts of fun on zero camber and wheelie bars

Mmm, Boost - I think it did a 10.6 or 10.7 without nitrous and a 10.4 with nitrous.

[MrDori]

They used 3sgte in gt500 supras, id go for a rwd layout in a old starlie that would be mean.

[MikeMan]

If I was look for a 9 second FWD car I would start with an EP71 shell and take a fiberglass mould.

That being done build a full tube frame chassis suitable for the body and a GenIV based 3SGTE mated to a Hewland EGT gearbox (Or similar FWD race box).

From there allow a LOT of money to build up an 800HP 3SGTE that will hold together.

To get into 9's in a FWD you will need a LOT of cash and a VERY good engineer.