Black-Top 4A-GE Questions?

[TTEETT]

Question, is the power output different on a 4A-GE 20Valve black-top fitted with manual and 4A-GE 20Valve black-top fitted with an auto

Am looking at putting the engine in my AE82, and have found one for sale, only it’s an auto. I know car manufactures sometimes de-tune auto models for various reasons and would hate to end up with a few horses short.

Im hoping this engine will bolt straight up to my existing gearbox, I think a couple of guys on this forum have done this conversion before so any tips and advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks

Graham

[Distrb]

Have done the conversion.

AFAIK mechanically there is no difference between manual and auto, but there will be a difference in ECU, so using a manual ecu would be easiest (i have one that i can sell if needs be)

Gearbox, you need a box that will allow you to mount starter motor on the intake side (they're on the exhaust side under the manifold on 16v) and you'll need a 20v starter motor also. I did in the early stage modify the 20v headers slightly so you can fit the 16v starter motor under them, but found it was heating the starter motor up too much, and eventually killed it. Even if you did have to change the box to a c56 box, it will be a direct fit, and you can use your exisiting driveshafts.

The brackets for the ae82 power steering/aircon pumps will need a bit of grinding in places so that they sit nicely up against the blacktop block. Their plugs will need to be integrated into the loom also..

Other than that its just splicing the wiring looms together(using all the blacktop sensors etc), joining up the 20v extractors & downpipe to the exhaust (may require a bit of fabrication) and away you go...

probably one of the easier conversions around.

[TTEETT]

Thanks for your input and time mate, didn’t think about starter motor location.

Is c56 a 5 or 6 speed?

Being a NZ new GT I have leather and fancy trim, but no power steering or aircon, maybe kiwis were stronger and cooler in the 80’s

[Santa'sBoostinSleigh]

C56 is 5 speed (found in facelift AE101 FXGT's, BZG levins etc)

your AE82 will probably have a C52 in it

just remember that "technically" you will need a cert (for >20% power increase) when you change to a blacktop

[Distrb]

just remember that "technically" you will need a cert (for >20% power increase) when you change to a blacktop

Not only that, but the engine isnt of OEM fitment to that model car..

[TTEETT]

Getting a warrant would be about the only time anyone will notice I would think, I happen to be mates with a tester at VTNZ, he will turn a blind eye.

Are there other implications of having a no certified conversion I should be worried about?

[AceSniper]

insurance if things go wrong.

[AE85coupe]

same engine code, same cc rating, and you could argue its not 20% more powerful, i wouldn't bother with a cert

whats the hp rating of bluetop compared with a black? are they actually 20% more powerful?

[TTEETT]

4A-GE DOHC (16 valve on rocker cover painted blue) 124bhp

4A-GE DOHC (20 valve black top) 170bhp

That’s nearly 40% more power for a grand hence why im planning on doing the conversion !

[4000GT]

Mine was an auto, it made 131WHP.

[AE85coupe]

4A-GE DOHC (16 valve on rocker cover painted blue) 124bhp

4A-GE DOHC (20 valve black top) 170bhp

That’s nearly 40% more power for a grand hence why im planning on doing the conversion !

shame a standard blacktop is not actually 170 bhp, good ol toyota inflated figures

but yeah, looks like you will need to cert it haha

[RedMist]

4A-GE DOHC (16 valve on rocker cover painted blue) 124bhp

4A-GE DOHC (20 valve black top) 170bhp

That’s nearly 40% more power for a grand hence why im planning on doing the conversion !

shame a standard blacktop is not actually 170 bhp, good ol toyota inflated figures

but yeah, looks like you will need to cert it haha

Shame the Bluetop isnt 124hp either!

Pulled 132whp on my Blacktop. With Link and K and N.

[Bling]

I understood that toyotas claims had no ancilleries attatched? for those power quotes...... could be wrong tho

[johntramp]

my ae85 was certified for a bluetop 4age and the cert guy said i didn't need to recert for the blacktop, as it is still a 1600 4age

[matt dunn]

I understood that toyotas claims had no ancilleries attatched? for those power quotes...... could be wrong tho

Yeah they are rated engine only, not even driving the water pump,
and so apparantly they mean f'all.

[TTEETT]

shame a standard blacktop is not actually 170 bhp, good ol toyota inflated figures

Inflated or not theoretically it should still be about 38% power increase?


Its funny you say the black-top has an inflated power figure, I had my suspicions, earlier in the year I bet a couple of Black-Top, 6-speed Levin’s around Pukekohe race course, they just couldn’t pass me, even on the back straight, and my car is stock as a rock (15.9 quarter with full interior).

[Santa'sBoostinSleigh]

it doesnt matter what the actual output is to an insurance co,
if it says on paper that a blacktop is X and a bluetop is Y,
when you run up the bum of a $150,000 Merc, they wont pay out if you arent certed
then if investigations go down, your 'mate' at the testing station will get his buttocks reamed for giving dodgy wof's

[Chickenman]

shame a standard blacktop is not actually 170 bhp, good ol toyota inflated figures

Inflated or not theoretically it should still be about 38% power increase?


Its funny you say the black-top has an inflated power figure, I had my suspicions, earlier in the year I bet a couple of Black-Top, 6-speed Levin’s around Pukekohe race course, they just couldn’t pass me, even on the back straight, and my car is stock as a rock (15.9 quarter with full interior).

What car are you driving? 15.9 is about .5 off an average to slow b/t so you were probably really close. They would need to be a gooood driver to pass someone competent in a similar car on the track.

[johntramp]

if it says on paper that a blacktop is X and a bluetop is Y

but the point is that they are both 1600cc 4A-GEs. No official document would call them "blue top" and "black top" that is just slang.

[sergei]

Judging by this doc, 4AFE are of same family as 4AGE . So theoretically FE -> GE swap does not need cert.
and the way they use or implies it either has to be same capacity or power.. So in other words if it is 1600cc it does not matter what power does it make .
Also there is paragraph with fuel iduction system. It can be either for carb->efi and viceversa, or if it is forced induction or not....