Clutch changing issues

[Dell'Orto]

Goddamn it. Its starting to get annoying now...I've just done a clutch change on my wagon, and for some reason I can't get the gearbox to bolt back up. It'll go to within about 10mm of the block, then no further.
I've measured the pressure plate and release bearing, they were identical in size to the originals. Made triple sure the clutch plate is aligned correctly, even went and bought an alignment tool to be on the safe side
If I bolt the gearbox to the block, the clutch pedal feels stupidly soft, and the driveshaft will turn constantly
What could I have missed/stuffed up???

[Quint]

Does it have a spigot bearing? If it does you may not be aligning the center of the shaft and the bearing up properly meaning that the gearbox can't fully bolt up to the block, because its sitting on the spigot.

[andyztouring]

you hav`nt done something silly like putting the clutch plate in back to front?.Did you check the new clutch against the old one,and tried it on the gearbox spline,sometimes the parts shop do supply the wrong one.

[Bling]

my only advice would be to keep on wigglin it, when I did clutch on the KP I also had fun getting it that last 10mm, but I kept moving it around and it clicked into place eventually. Clutch doesn't engage/disengage at end of peddle, but since I hadn't driven it before I guessed this was normal

maybe I have something wrong with my setup, but it works 100%

[Dell'Orto]

Does it have a spigot bearing? If it does you may not be aligning the center of the shaft and the bearing up properly meaning that the gearbox can't fully bolt up to the block, because its sitting on the spigot.

It does, but it's definately going in...I put a bit of grease on the end of the input shaft to check. I can bolt the box to the block though which is the odd part, just the clutch is totally not there when I do.

you hav`nt done something silly like putting the clutch plate in back to front?.Did you check the new clutch against the old one,and tried it on the gearbox spline,sometimes the parts shop do supply the wrong one.

Nah definately double checked that. Debating flipping it just in case for some reason K series like clutch plates backward Definately the right clutch - I work in parts plus it goes in far enough to definately be sliding onto the plate.

my only advice would be to keep on wigglin it, when I did clutch on the KP I also had fun getting it that last 10mm, but I kept moving it around and it clicked into place eventually

Yeah I've tried and it just doesnt want to go...its weird, every other time I've done clutches they've just slipped on as per normal
Last thing I'll try tonight will be to use a different box...I did take off the end cover to see if I could replace the seal behind it, but it didnt come off entirely and bolted back up fine. Maybe.

[jondee86]

Sounds a bit like the throwout bearing is disengaging the clutch
when you bolt it up. Did you change the throwout bearing ??
Clutch fork and bearing all in the right place ??

Cheers... jondee86

[bluemaumau]

is it the same gearbox?

[Dell'Orto]

Sounds a bit like the throwout bearing is disengaging the clutch
when you bolt it up. Did you change the throwout bearing ??
Clutch fork and bearing all in the right place ??

Cheers... jondee86

Yep, changed the bearing. It does look slightly different to the old one, but it made no difference when I put the old one back in. But yeah, it basically it does feel like the clutch is staying in.
I don't think you can put the clutch fork in wrong in these things, only appears to go one way.

is it the same gearbox?

Yep, still same box

[nic32]

I found that the last 10mm was really hard too - only way could get it in was by getting a couple bolts and using them to pull the box to the block. Guess it's cos of the spigot bearing, very close fit.

Then you've done that the clutch will have no pedal, adjust the cable, should be a circlip on the clutch cable where it goes thru the firewall.

From memory pulling the cable thru more gave a good pedal.

[Dell'Orto]

I've kinda left this the past few weeks as its been annoying me, but I managed to get the box onto the block alright, but the clutch wont engage at all I've nearly adjusted the pedal to the absolute max it can go, but even then it wont bite.
Clutch plate is definately the right way around, I checked that several million times
What else could be wrong????

[andyztouring]

Sounds like you will have to dismantle and check everything again,bent forks ,damaged splines,fautly clutch plate/pressure plate,etc.

[jondee86]

If I bolt the gearbox to the block, the clutch pedal feels stupidly soft, and the driveshaft will turn constantly

So what you are saying is that with the box bolted up and in gear, you
can turn the driveshaft by hand ?? If so the clutch must be disengaged.

The only thing that can disengage the clutch is the throwout bearing
pressing on the fingers on the pressure plate. This means the bearing
must be forward, and the clutch fork should be flopping round... able to
move through it's normal range without meeting any resistance. Right ??

So I would be looking for anything other than the fork that could be
pushing the throwout bearing forward (or stopping it sliding back to it's
normal unengaged resting position).

Cheers... jondee86

[YeMs]

just to clear a small grey area up, what clutch have you installed? heavy duty? standard? what flavour? is it a full kit? (clutch plate/pressure plate/thrust bearing)

so the clutch isnt engaging/clamping? so your not getting any drive through the clutch assembley? meaning the pressure plate isnt clamping?

when u installed the clutch did the pressure plate clamp up? IE couldnt move the clutch plate atall?

have you made sure the thrust bearing arm is located correctly? i mean if its sittting ontop of the pivot ball instead of it located in the socket would cause this problem.

just for shits have u bled the clutch? are you getting full travel from the thrust arm/clutch slave?

[Dell'Orto]

If I bolt the gearbox to the block, the clutch pedal feels stupidly soft, and the driveshaft will turn constantly

So what you are saying is that with the box bolted up and in gear, you
can turn the driveshaft by hand ?? If so the clutch must be disengaged.

No, what I mean is when I start the car, in neutral, the driveshaft will spin as though its in gear. Basically the opposite symptoms of what you've said I just tried swapping release bearing as it looked different to the old one, and it still does the same thing.

just to clear a small grey area up, what clutch have you installed? heavy duty? standard? what flavour? is it a full kit? (clutch plate/pressure plate/thrust bearing)

so the clutch isnt engaging/clamping? so your not getting any drive through the clutch assembley? meaning the pressure plate isnt clamping?

when u installed the clutch did the pressure plate clamp up? IE couldnt move the clutch plate atall?

have you made sure the thrust bearing arm is located correctly? i mean if its sittting ontop of the pivot ball instead of it located in the socket would cause this problem.

just for shits have u bled the clutch? are you getting full travel from the thrust arm/clutch slave?

Its a full clutch kit, just a standard PBR one. Replaced the spigot bearing as well.
No clutch to bleed, she's a good ol cable

What I did try before is to pull the cable all the way out, then I have pedal feel and I can almost change gear without grinding.

[20v_rollaboy]

I had the same problem when I was changing a clutch on a mates GT Starlet. Pressure plate was the same, release bearing was the same, and clutch plate was the same.

Put the box back on, and pushing pedal in wasnt disengaging clutch.

Ended up taking the box off 3 times that night to try and find the problem. Eventually found that the shaft in the clutch plate was 5mm wider than the original one, meaning it wasnt allowing the pressure plate to push in.

[jondee86]

Under cross-examination, Mmm, Boost admitted...
No, what I mean is when I start the car, in neutral, the driveshaft will spin as though its in gear.

If the input shaft is turning, then there may be sufficient viscous drag to
get the output shaft turning while the box is in neutral, but there will not
be any torque. You should be able to easily stop it turning by hand.

If not, its time for...
DID YOU FCUK WITH THE GEARBOX BOY ??

Cheers... jondee86

[Dell'Orto]

Hahaha, yeah I can stop the wheel from turning easily enough, handbrake holds both wheels.
Only fcuking around I did with the box is replacing the rear seal on it.

[YeMs]

sounds like the plate may be a lil thicker than a factory 1 or something stupid like that.

did a clutch on a vr4 last week and had the same problem, ended up just driving the c**t to bed it in and now its fine.

[jondee86]

In an unguarded moment, Mmm, Boost let slip...
What I did try before is to pull the cable all the way out, then I have pedal feel and I can almost change gear without grinding.

Based on this, it is probably safe to assume that the clutch is OK and
the problem lies in the cable adjustment. Since a cable clutch is not
self-compensating for wear, the pedal gets closer to the floor as the
clutch wears. It is common to "shorten the cable" to raise the pedal
and make sure that the clutch is fully disengaged before the pedal hits
the floor.

Now, if someone was to install a new clutch without backing the cable
adjustment off, the new (thicker) clutch plate would push the pedal
right up, and possibly even partially disengage the clutch Due to
the "over-centre" action of the fingers on the pressure plate, this may
well feel like a loss of pedal.

I reckon if you double check the cable adjustment, and the brackets
that hold the end of the cable (to make sure nothing has jumped out
of place), you should be close to solving this mystery

Cheers... jondee86

[Dell'Orto]

Nah, I did play with the clutch pedal while trying to get it to work. Its almost at the top end of its adjustment.
Would a thinner flywheel cause it maybe? Just thinking that perhaps the flywheel was out of spec before being machined and having it done made it worse.