"winged" and baffled sumps

[deaf_rattle]

I am looking at getting my sump "winged" for more oil capacity and baffled.

Where abouts in auckland could i get this done, and roughly how much would it cost to do?

any info would be most appreciated

cheers

[postfach]

you could get that done pretty much anywhere, they just weld extra metal on the sides afaik, probably even a sheetmetal place will do it for you, just have it nice and clean for them and be specific about what measurements you want.

[matt dunn]

And remember the most important part of baffleing a sump is to get get picture of it when finished and post them on here,

[deaf_rattle]

And remember the most important part of baffleing a sump is to get get picture of it when finished and post them on here,

ha, whys that?

[RomanV]

Just curious, what exactly is a 'winged' sump?

Dont 7MGTE sumps have baffles etc in them or something? Why would your sump need modifying?

And I'd assume that mr Dunn is either calling you a 'project update post whore', or that there's not really any point of a winged sump except for bling factor, or... something else.

[postfach]

Just curious, what exactly is a 'winged' sump?

Dont 7MGTE sumps have baffles etc in them or something? Why would your sump need modifying?

And I'd assume that mr Dunn is either calling you a 'project update post whore', or that there's not really any point of a winged sump except for bling factor, or... something else.

its when you add extra capacity on either side of the sump, hence the name wings, so you can put more oil in.

[deaf_rattle]

the wings are for extra oil capacity and the baffling is to try and keep the oil in the sump while corning etc, stop it from slopping up the sides etc.

[frost]

[deaf_rattle]

cheers dude, did you do that yourself? or take it somewhere?

[Mr Revhead]

my advice would be to think carefully about the baffleing

[85AW20v]

Can you tell us what you'd need to think carefully about Revvy? Just after more information - you've obviously got something ticking around in your head that you're not telling!!

[Mr Revhead]

well you have to keep in mind what the aim of baffles is
which is to keep oil around the pick up.

so you want them to let oil flow one way, but not the other.
things like sloped bottom, angled baffles and trap doors.

iv seen pics of some that looked all flash and shiney. but didnt work too well.


so im meaning, that like with anything on a motor, think it through carefully!

[matt dunn]

The reason for my post is because Baffeling is such a good idea for a engine that will see track work,

But like porting a head if it's not done properly, it will make it worse.

Was just asking to see a picture as it sounds like he is going to pay someone to do it, and if they know what they are doing should make a good job.

The last one I had done had 3 levels of baffel's, but was not winged for extra capacity.

We had to have quite a few attemps on the Focus to stop surge under braking.

The aim of baffels is to stop the oil going up the wall under sideways or forward/backward forces, without slowing down the oil returning to the bottom of the pickup.

[frost]

the pic above is not mine but thats a 20v sump with about 1Liter of wings added

this is the inside of a SR20 racing sump, notice the one way doors and angled styled walls to help oil flow to the center for pickup,


also winged ae86 diff with oil squirter to C/P mash point.

[matt dunn]

An interesting way of doing it, but not the design we use.


For my car we use this



For the focus we ended up with the same as this too, but had to move the pick up location to the front of the sump more as the sump is so long.

[fangsport]

Matt,does the oil return to the pick-up quickly enough with that design? it's similar to mine, and McKissick/Castrol still kills my bottom end.

[matt dunn]

Matt,does the oil return to the pick-up quickly enough with that design? it's similar to mine, and McKissick/Castrol still kills my bottom end.

Well it's got no option but to flow down the big hole in the middle.
Dad's design, and he's done many.
The pickup is not at the same level as the bottom panel otherwise it would partially block the hole,
and is quite a tight fit around the edges, closer than the pic looks, so oil can flow down there a bit, but is really slow to flow back up and out under g force.

[Mr Revhead]

i forgot about that type of design.

obviously drain back is sufficent, you havent run a bottom end yet! but it does look like it could be restrictive. is that dead flat? or does it slope one way or more?

[KinLoud]

Some of the problem with track cars is the sustained G force during a long corner.
The oil may not flow back to the sump easily due to the G force keeping the oil away from the drainbacks (good example is gen 1, 2 and 3 3sge in a right turn!).
The oil just can't get back to the sump!
SO
You need to be sure that there is enough oil in the sump to supply the engine for the time it is in the corner.
A winged sump increases the volume of the sump and so helps to maintain oil supply.
However a winged sump has room for the oil to flow away from the pickup and hide in one of the wings. This is why people sometimes add hinged gates to stop the oil flowing away.
COMMENT - Hot oil flows almost like water and will get through tiny gaps in the hinged gates, the gates have to swing freely and have a really tight fit.

Baffles also help keep the oil near the pickup to maintain supply during cornering and braking. However a good baffle can stop oil returning to the sump during the cornering or braking.

If possible increase the sump volume by making the sump deeper (not always practical) and extending the pickup tube. Consider over filling the sump by 1/2 or 1 litre, if the oil tends to sit in the head.... however this can lead to the crank hitting the oil and robbing power and aerating the oil (bad).

Another partial solution is to use an accusump (google is your friend). I use one on my racecar (gen3 3sge rwd Carina) combined with a bigger volume sump. I am sure that this saves my engine from self destruction (see above about drainbacks)

Ultimate solution - drysump setup (cost $3000 to $6000)!

Ken
Ham
021 408 863

[deaf_rattle]

sweet then, dry sump it is

i wish