Toyspeed.org.nz Message Board

An answer from before twigged this off in my head..

Curious to know how many people feel higher or even much education is important to be sucsessfull in life..

For the sakes of argument we need a line as some may say earning less than 400k a year is a failure soo..

ya average job / career where you can afford a nice life comfortably, Home holidays cars and toys big screen tvs etc.

Just not a bowling alley in your garden and things like that

Very ish hard to answer / guage in a way but non the less.. oh and im after like experiances / ideas more so that what you as a person have ACTUALLY done vs what you have ACTUALLY learnt / studied.

I only finished the first term of 7th form, and then started my apprentiship. Was gonna be a machanic but I found it too easy so decided to be an electrician.

Pro`s: Earn while you learn

Con`s: Pay is sh*t until you are qualified

Did a pre apprentship corse to be a sparkie last year, not really for me. Im more the sit behind a computer and fix them type of person than a get under houses and crawl type person. The money side of computer trade looks to be good, but it also looks like the market is becoming flooded.

The funny thing is, is that electricians/chippies/plumbers are in big demand at the moment.... There's some good money to be made, more so than a lot of computer based jobs.

It's weird. I left school at 13, however I am fine when I am online, I can answer most peoples questions (unless its real technical car shit), most of my friends say i'm smart (they're 6/7th form), but as soon as I hang out with friends offline I lack social skills.

So I think school helps in that way.

As for Uni/Tech, I think they help alot depending on your career. You could spend 5 years doing a degree in bodywork, mechanics, etc and struggle to find a job whereas someone who just left school at 15 might get a job as a floor bitch straight away.

Meh, what the $&#$% am I talking about? It's 12:42am.

Knowledge is the most important thing when it comes to being successful; without knowledge you can't do anything. An education is only one way to obtain the knowledge necessary to earn large amounts of money (eg: training to be a doctor). You might teach yourself how to become a programmer and get a job at a software company (2 of our best programmers dropped out of high school). You could get an automotive apprenticeship to work as a mechanic. Training might make the difference between being a mechanic repairing Ladas or one maintaining Ferraris. But if you don't have the knowledge of how to do a job that pays well you'll be stuck in supermarket checkouts or pumping petrol.

There are other factors that can alter how successful you are though. A persons attitude, what opportunities they received (or created), their work ethic or even how well wired their brain is all assist in making some people more successful than others. For example take my stepbrother. In his early 20s he came up with an idea for some software that might be useful in the emerging world of the Internet. He wrote the software in his bedroom at home, marketed it on the Internet, formed a company and in 2000 sold his share of it for around AUD$70m. I have the skills to write exactly the same piece of software but since he is worth squillions and I'm struggling to pay the mortgage obviously I'm not as successful as him (but at least I can play with some of his toys when I go to Australia ).

I left school half way through 6th form. Best thing I ever did, hated it. Went to WelTec, Flew threw Multimedia and Game Design with no less than 90% passes. This year I am moving onto the first of three years doing a Bachelour in Information Technology. I couldve gone and gotten an apprentiship or a basic job, But I would much rather be a poo as student for 3 years and have good quals for the rest of my life then not have any.

MINTFX wrote:I left school half way through 6th form. Best thing I ever did, hated it. Went to WelTec, Flew threw Multimedia and Game Design with no less than 90% passes. This year I am moving onto the first of three years doing a Bachelour in Information Technology. I couldve gone and gotten an apprentiship or a basic job, But I would much rather be a poo as student for 3 years and have good quals for the rest of my life then not have any.

Now thats the funniest thing...

I did that course, got BIT (80% was the pass rate back then, none of this 50% bollocks), fine, no problems... got a job... been IT Development for 4 years... now that qualification is irelevant, because on the job experience takes over.

You dont need a qualification to get a start in IT, so by virtue, at the end of it all, your qualification, doesnt mean jack, it just helps you jump a couple of rungs up the ladder at the start. Which is where you could be after the same amount of time had you not done a course, and started in a lower level job. And you'd have money in your pocket instead of a debt hanging over your head.

(im not talking about degree's in general, just this one in particular)

Distrb wrote:You dont need a qualification to get a start in IT, so by virtue, at the end of it all, your qualification, doesnt mean jack, it just helps you jump a couple of rungs up the ladder at the start. Which is where you could be after the same amount of time had you not done a course, and started in a lower level job. And you'd have money in your pocket instead of a debt hanging over your head.

I'm with you on this one D, my current role, Test Analysts, hasnt been gained by any formal qualification(s) in fact if I look back at what I have studied through school and then a breif stint at Tech then i'm not even using most of that.

For me personally to get in to the role I am in today I have worked my way up and learnt evrthing I need to learn in the role and usually by doing stuff that i shouldnt be, human nature, someone says you cant do it so ya try it anyway.

I think a good solid base education i.e 5,6 or 7th form is always a good start and will make life a little easier down the track, but it all depends on the individual, some adapt very quickly to the environment around them and could still probably do well with only 3rd form under their belts

Distrb wrote:Now thats the funniest thing...

I did that course, got BIT (80% was the pass rate back then, none of this 50% bollocks), fine, no problems... got a job... been IT Development for 4 years... now that qualification is irelevant, because on the job experience takes over.

- It's not what you know, it's who you know. That's why I'm getting f*cked off with my degree (final semester of 3rd year of BIT). Hell, I don't even know if I want to go into IT when I finish >.>

K<^-^>E

Well let's see I failed 5th Form miserably just after I moved to the country from South Africa. Luckily I went round to all of the teachers afterwards and had a talk saying I'm new to the country and don't speak the language all to well and they all passed me.

From there I went on half way through 6th Form and my dad pulled me out after a couple of teachers told him to as there was nothing for me really to do there. They didn't have things on my level to do so yeh...

Went on to do a couple of computer courses and started working about 1.5 Years later and I've been moving up eversince. I'm probably the youngest person @ the company I work doing the stuff I do at the moment.

I think an education is important dependant on what you plan to do with your life. I know allot of people don't know at a younger age what they do plan to do so I reckon for those it is better to stay in school and just learn while you can and experience different things untill you've made up your mind.

School I reckon is also very important for building social skills. I can relate to what Emperor has said somewhat in the fact that I lost lots of social skills when I left school as I wasn't really interacting with people much and I was rather new to the country so I guess you could say that I was kind of scared to start interacting with people as I didn't know anything about the culture etc.

In short I reckon an education is good and I reckon people should stay in school. If you know what you want to do in life and where you want to go I reckon it's better to get out of school and start doing it, studying towards it etc.

My 2c...

It's obviously very differnt for each indivdual as to what drives them to be sucessful and the nessessary skills are dependant on what field they intent to be sucessful in.
For me, I wasn't happy at school, learning things that I didn't see a pratical place for with the dream to be a music video director. So I did a diploma of multimedia instead of 7th from, followed by a crammed one year post-graduate diploma in digital video post production which gave me the skills to get the job I got, and have been working at for a year now.

So now I'm 20, I've got a job I love earning an average income but enough to, combined with my partner, be building a house.
I'm also starting a new business just now, which is something I've long wanted to do. I've always had a passion for business, perhaps stemmed from my Dad, and so this really excites me.
(Know anyone getting married?! www.creativekat.co.nz ) !!
I'm not rich, but one day I will be, when I establish my company in the UK and Japan making music videos Hehe.
So, for me, I think success is more driven by passion and motivation.

Oh, and a bit of innovation and ingenuity helps

Im in my 3rd year of uni doing my BA in Political Science and Media studies and am under no illusion that its going to be a bitch to get a job at the end of it. The girls at uni are hot though so its fully worth my while to be here

Am i the only one here who is disturbed to find 'success' in life being measured by a level of what you own or can afford?

Theres plenty of rich people who have a crap life, and plenty of not-so-rich people who have great ones. Success is defined by what you do and who you are, not how much shit you own.

(and for the record, i'm moderately well off, so this isnt sour grapes )

For the sakes of argument we need a line as some may say earning less than 400k a year is a failure soo..

There are millions of possibile ways to judge so as i said, for this eg these are the bases. Other wise youd be correct.

re make the same question asking " Based on love how happy are you " or something.. it was the more ovious way to make a judgment for the question at hand. I dont dissregard what your saying but feel you failed to take on board what i said with the sakes of argument line.

Distrb wrote:

MINTFX wrote:I left school half way through 6th form. Best thing I ever did, hated it. Went to WelTec, Flew threw Multimedia and Game Design with no less than 90% passes. This year I am moving onto the first of three years doing a Bachelour in Information Technology. I couldve gone and gotten an apprentiship or a basic job, But I would much rather be a poo as student for 3 years and have good quals for the rest of my life then not have any.

Now thats the funniest thing...

I did that course, got BIT (80% was the pass rate back then, none of this 50% bollocks), fine, no problems... got a job... been IT Development for 4 years... now that qualification is irelevant, because on the job experience takes over.

You dont need a qualification to get a start in IT, so by virtue, at the end of it all, your qualification, doesnt mean jack, it just helps you jump a couple of rungs up the ladder at the start. Which is where you could be after the same amount of time had you not done a course, and started in a lower level job. And you'd have money in your pocket instead of a debt hanging over your head.

(im not talking about degree's in general, just this one in particular)

Hook me up with a job then!!! But yea, I just wanted to enjoy my semi freedom while I had it and gain knowledge. I guess I had never really thought about experience taking over the qualification. I guess I would MUCH rather be out working and getting paid than studying and after 3 years realising I didnt even need to do it.

Blackrazor wrote:Am i the only one here who is disturbed to find 'success' in life being measured by a level of what you own or can afford?

Theres plenty of rich people who have a crap life, and plenty of not-so-rich people who have great ones. Success is defined by what you do and who you are, not how much sh*t you own.

(and for the record, i'm moderately well off, so this isnt sour grapes )

you're right...

i think before you can answer the question... there needs to be another one...

What is success and how can it be defined?

some would say it is:
having a good job
having a partner
being a parent
etc etc etc etc....

I know this is pretty much all about education and work but yeah.... something to think about

Blackrazor wrote:Am i the only one here who is disturbed to find 'success' in life being measured by a level of what you own or can afford?

Nup, was just answering the question as asked, just like I was taught at university . Money != happiness (but it can buy you a whole lot of cool toys!)

I'm another of these uni grads who ended up a programmer, the only reason my degree (BCom) is useful to my current job is that I do quite a bit of business analysis for the customer before writing code. The actual coding part has been entirely self-taught.

To me education is a good idea, but not necessarily needed.

I lost interest in school at 14, got a job(~20 hrs/week) outside of school, but continued going as I had "nothing better to do".

4th form exam results were good, 3 subjects over 90%(Maths, Science, English) 72% for economics.
5th form my results went to ~80% for maths, the rest were barely passes, but I was happily employed doing ~30hrs/week.
6th form I turned up, and thats about it, began writing my own absense notes, none of which were ever checked.
7th form I usually turned up.

Then I floundered due to lack of interest in anything but money/work, then I got a PC(19th July 1998), got net(20th July 1998), and got into computing.

Now I earn ~$45k/year + 50% off any courses I want to take, from my "5th form education"... as a comparison, two of my best mates, both easily on par with me smarts wise, one owes ~$58k(student loan), and is unemployed(trained as a child psycologist), the other owes ~$20k, and is employed as a sky instructor in the rockies(trained as an electrical engineer).

I consider two of us to have done well, the other, well, I always wondered about his common sense.

- a willingness to learn (in general) along with a good attitude will in the long term do you damned well - a graduate with none of these will suck.

- Social skills are important, and School (and tertiary to a point) are where you learn to socialise - consider the age you are in Secondary and Tertiary. Thats when a lot of your 'adult' social skills are learnt. (Hard to replace that sort of exposure.

- Finishing a tertiary qual serves as a bit of a starting block for employers and recruiters - and for yourself. It proves you can apply yourself and have a level of 'commonsense' - at least enough to pass! It can be used as a point of difference - but in the end, the interviewer will take the person that they deem best for the job... so if you can prove you are the one for the job regardless of qual, you'll likely get it !

- I'm evidence of this... I didnt finish high school, I didnt finish the second half of my tertiary qual (I sat and passed a certificate level qual but I should've finished a Diploma in the time it took) - but I was able to convince all my employers that I was keen, enthusiastic and able to learn on the fly. That and I managed to gain a hell of a lot of useful work experience relatively quickly. Its a working formula. I'm now the youngest member of an engineering team for a large IT organisation and advancing quickly.

Point 1 - Tertiary education will be of benefit to you - be it in the form of apprenticeship or via a university type thing. But you may find that if youve got the ability, attitude and drive, you can find the kind of job you want by convincing your employers that youre the right person. (And on the job training will take it from there).

However... !

Point 2 - The perspective largely missing from this conversation is that of people whove already been in the work force for 20 or 25 years. When you start looking at Management type roles tertiary quals come into their own - the letters behind your name can be important for entry into more senior positions. This is more from observation than experience... but i'm fully expecting to wind up wanting to go back and do something a little more substantial in a few years time. If I can get work to pay for it, all good