Av Gas in A Silvertop?

[Dragger_Dan]

I know what you think I mean, but let me explain. I DIDN'T READ THE WHOLE $&#$% TOPIC. And besides, it was only mentioned as a passing comment, you are determined to jump on people for tiny mistakes.

[fangsport]

nice scones by the way, did your mother bake them.

ok, enough of the pee-taking.

the advantage/gain with a higher octane is that timing can be advanced slightly more and the engine will run slightly cooler and will produce some gains in high compression engines, may also be the case on turbos etc but someone else will help on that.
in an older engine, the lead content acts as an upper cylinder lubricant.

[CozmoNz]

nice scones by the way, did your mother bake them.

ok, enough of the pee-taking.

the advantage/gain with a higher octane is that timing can be advanced slightly more and the engine will run slightly cooler and will produce some gains in high compression engines, may also be the case on turbos etc but someone else will help on that.
in an older engine, the lead content acts as an upper cylinder lubricant.

this is why old v8's and such running on 96 octane need lead adon bottles and crap that get sucked into the engine to meet its lead requirements .

[Dragger_Dan]

Exactly. And we will leave it at that. We have had arguments before on HP gains from certain mods, and it turned sour. However, have you heard of leaded fuel compatable O2 sensors? I wanna know if you can get them or if this guy was lying. I have a potential project comming up that could do with avgas.

[CozmoNz]

Exactly. And we will leave it at that. We have had arguments before on HP gains from certain mods, and it turned sour. However, have you heard of leaded fuel compatable O2 sensors? I wanna know if you can get them or if this guy was lying. I have a potential project comming up that could do with avgas.

you just dont run avgas man, you just run race fuel. theres a reason they use RACEING fuel, its unleaded and just as good as avgas. its just one you can get from your mate at the airport!

[Dragger_Dan]

Good point, but avgas is so cheap..... my brother is a pilot and we can get it way cheaper that even pump gas.

[Al]

Yes you can get lead friendlier oxy sensors, afaik its a ford part, matt dunn had some info if im not mistaken

I havent bothered yet tho, ive run about 10 tank fulls of avgas through the mr2, but ive only got a single wire oxy sensor so its quite primitive and not needed

[CozmoNz]

Good point, but avgas is so cheap..... my brother is a pilot and we can get it way cheaper that even pump gas.

you didnt read my post did you

go on, fuel ur car up on it, watch what happens . you like spending money right?

[Dragger_Dan]

However, if the car is tuned to run avgas... I'm not talking a stock motor... or a stock ECU... or stock turbo... then it shouldn't be a problem. And it will be a race motor so lead buildups won't be a problem as we will haul it out quite ofter.

[RedMist]

[quote="Dragger_Dan"]Exactly. And we will leave it at that. We have had arguments before on HP gains from certain mods, and it turned sour. However, have you heard of leaded fuel compatable O2 sensors? I wanna know if you can get them or if this guy was lying. I have a potential project comming up that could do with avgas.[/quote]

There are NO leaded fuel compatable O2 sensors. There are some with a very big heater that are slightly more lead tolerant, but they all fail.

In regards to your potential project... what needs avgas??

ABOUT AVIATION FUELS - Aviation gasoline (or "av gas") is blended specifically for use in small aircraft. It's also commonly used by many high performance engine owners because of it's high stated octane rating (usually 100-110) and the relatively low price compared to racing fuel. Unfortunately this fuel is not all it appears to be. Avgas octane is rated on a different scale than gasoline's intended for ground level use. What is 100 octane "av", is not necessarily 100 octane "ground level". Besides this, there is also a big chemical difference. Normal ground level race fuels are made up of gas molecules that have a "light end" and a "heavy end". The light end of the molecule ignites easily and burns quickly with a low temperature flame (as a piece of thin newspaper would burn). The heavy end of the molecule is not so easily ignited, but it burns with a much more intense heat (as an oak log would). This heavy end of the gasoline molecule is responsible for the hotter, more powerful part of the combustion process.

Small aircraft are constructed as very weight conscious vehicles. That's because their somewhat weak engines often have difficulty taking off with any extra weight. To help reduce this weight problem, aviation gasoline's are blended with no heavy molecule end. This makes a gallon of avgas weigh substantially less than a gallon of ground level fuel. Since small plane engines turn very low rpms and produce so little power, the omission of the heavy end is not a horsepower issue. However, for high output pwc racing engines, there is defiantly a compromise in power. This, despite the fact that many pwc owners experience the desirable cooler operating temperatures that avgas offers. In addition, some blends of avgas will quickly separate from some oils used in premix situations. For the above reasons, we do not recommend the ongoing use of 100% avgas, and we will not prepare any "avgas" engine kits.

Despite all this bad news, running avgas (accepting the slight power loss) is usually a better choice than burning down a high output engine on regular pump gas. In this situation, the best choice is usually a 50/50 mix of pump and avgas. That provides "some" heavy molecule ends for the engine

[RedMist]

By the way, its bloody easy to spot av-gas, police will notice the smell instantly and then its just a matter of drawing some. Its specifically died blue or blue green (depending on which avgas you run). The reason its cheaper is because it doesn't contain road taxes.

[ChaosAD]

What are the issues with lead buildup. Will these be a problem if your only using a 10/90 or 50/50 mix?

[Leon]

Isn't that gonna cost them more to get the sample sent to a specialist than the fine?

Nope, it's about a three second test with a little machine with MSNZ.

[Dr-X]

Who cares about the oxy sensor? It takes a fair amount of lead to ruin it, so you can run with it for some time without problems. Then, just replace it. They're not very expensive, and I assume you're not gonna run avgas all the time.

[cray]

so where can i get some of this c16 stuff?
sounds like the mak fuel

[JT]

so where can i get some of this c16 stuff?
sounds like the mak fuel

If you don't know where to get it from, chances are you wont need it or be able to afford it.

[LUMIN8]

if i were considering using avgas on the road.

my fears wouldnt be lying in getting caught by cops.

but the insurance company finding out - if i crashed.

even if i wasn't driving recklessly (lets face it, boyracing is reckless)

if someone else hit me, and the insurance company noticed
the strange white/grey deposits on my bumper - and then investigated.

mind you if you kept the crazy driving for the track and drove
normally on the road, the cops wouldnt even notice you anyway.

ive owned a modified car for 2 years now, and the worst i've had was
a cop at breathtesting stop arguing with me over the legality of a blue
neon behind the grill. i turned it off and told him it was left on by accident and that its NOT illegal to use them parked up somewhere.

my cars a little loud too, but no trouble.

[Dragger_Dan]

Of course you could just keep your gas in a can in the boot. Then only put it in when you hit the track... seems to make more sense.

[Inane]

Isn't that gonna cost them more to get the sample sent to a specialist than the fine?

well if you have a fuel complaint and an NZDRA meet and they take samples and you are in the rwrong you pay the testing fees and they are only like $200

[NZ_AE86]

Who cares about the oxy sensor? It takes a fair amount of lead to ruin it, so you can run with it for some time without problems. Then, just replace it. They're not very expensive, and I assume you're not gonna run avgas all the time.

Once again you have outdone yourself! Although a factory Oxy sensor will put up with a little lead it will stop giving reliable outputs within a few thousand (or less) Kms. They are not that cheap either, I mean not 'gold plated' but you would not want to be replacing one every service!