Actual 4AG Dyno Figures

[CozmoNz]

Ratios put into dynos are only relative to HUB dynos.
The final drive ratio in shootout mode makes no difference to the overall power figure.
And for the record all our runs are done in 4th gear as this is straight through 1:1 ratio on box -->diff.
Bluetops always seem to make more power than the old TVIS redtop .. TVIS redtop is the worst of the bunch in my opinion.

4th gear is 1:1 ratio huh?

in every gearbox?
Gearbox First Second Third Fourth Fifth Sixth
C50 3.545 1.904 1.310 0.969 0.815
C52 3.166 1.904 1.310 0.969 0.815
C56 3.166 1.904 1.392 1.031 0.815
C59 3.166 1.904 1.310 0.969 0.815
C60 3.166 2.050 1.481 1.166 0.916 0.725
C150 3.545 1.904 1.310 0.969 0.815
C151 3.545 1.904 1.233 0.885 0.725

none of the above at all list 1:1 Gear Ratio.

Yeh, its close, but we are dealing with a whopping 80kw, and every kw is an aid!

and the *averaging it out* post made above. oh come on... that means that half of those engines are making MORE than the *average*.

eg, a blacktop would then be putting out more like 130kw than the quoted 126...

a 130kw blacktop would go quite nicly... i highly doubt that.....

just advance timing people the answer to all problems. More det? advance!

[NA Drifter]

try T series gear box or any other petrol's car gearbox... most are 4th gear 1:1 ratio.

[JT]

4th gear is 1:1 ratio huh?

No one cares about fwd
Most are so close to 1:1 that it wouldn't make any difference

Who cares what a standard bluetop gets anyway, the idea is compare how much difference changes to your setup made.

[Al]

Are they still near 1:1 after the diff ratio?

[NZ_AE86]

The final drive ratio in shootout mode makes no difference to the overall power figure.
And for the record all our runs are done in 4th gear as this is straight through 1:1 ratio on box -->diff.

What Crap!

[Drifter4ag]

sorry mate ..show us your dynos .. if the Dyno takes your gear ratio into account before calc power then its a load of shit
1:1 is where its at .. final drive ratio is only used if you are hung up on torque figures and love your maths boyo

[NZ_AE86]

If the incorrect Diff ratio is entered into the Dyno then the power/torque figures put out are wrong. AE86 with 4.78 Diff on the dyno made 162hp at the wheels but if you change the Diff ratio on the Dyno to 5.3 then the power drops to 144hp at the wheels! oh yeah, sorry mate

[Drifter4ag]

that is an irrelevant statement for the way the majority of dyno days are run and have only ever seen those stats put on hub dynos
Shootout mode doesnt make a calculation based on diff ratio it is just power at the wheels at speed. otherwise you are saying .. hey .. i need more power .. what a great mod.. ill just keep changing my diff ratio for this fantastic powergain .. almost as good as the electric fan on the intake


and again.. show me your dynos with this power increase/decrease

[NZ_AE86]

Wellington Dyno days are run on a hub dyno and I know that most of the figures that people recieve are incorrect! This is the only Dyno that I have used so I can't comment on your Shootout mode dyno.

If you really want I can get the dyno sheets of the AE86 I talked about. We dyno'd it and had been told that it had a 5.3 diff in it so this was the figure we put into the dyno and with this figure the dyno rev reading and the vehicle rev counter were pretty much exact. The result was 144hp at the wheels. After finding out that the Diff ratio was actually 4.78 and that the rev counter was way out the car with no change to engine/ecu gained the best part of 20hp at the wheels. The only difference between the runs was the diff ratio entered.

If your so sure it will make no difference why is the function there?

[pc]

So what NZ_AE86 is saying, If you want accurate torque & kilowatt readings you have to get the diff/final drive ratio correct?

and Drifter4ag is saying in shootout mode where diff figures aren't used, you just pick a gear that will be producing good torque at such and such speed and measure kilowatts there?

If CozmoNz's post is correct there is no 1:1 drive ratio on a whole bunch of gear boxes so 'picking 4th gear' on 'any car' will not give you 1:1


Just curious from a comparing my engine to others point of view.

[Adamal]

Hmm... I think I see why a lot of dyno sheets these days seem to plot the power and torque against the ground speed, and not the RPM.

[pc]

Surely plotting against ground speed is not desirable, cos how do you know where your power band/s are and how do you know where you you are moving it to when tuning?

[Caveman]

Ratios put into dynos are only relative to HUB dynos.
The final drive ratio in shootout mode makes no difference to the overall power figure.
And for the record all our runs are done in 4th gear as this is straight through 1:1 ratio on box -->diff.
Bluetops always seem to make more power than the old TVIS redtop .. TVIS redtop is the worst of the bunch in my opinion.

4th gear is 1:1 ratio huh?

in every gearbox?
Gearbox First Second Third Fourth Fifth Sixth
C50 3.545 1.904 1.310 0.969 0.815
C52 3.166 1.904 1.310 0.969 0.815
C56 3.166 1.904 1.392 1.031 0.815
C59 3.166 1.904 1.310 0.969 0.815
C60 3.166 2.050 1.481 1.166 0.916 0.725
C150 3.545 1.904 1.310 0.969 0.815
C151 3.545 1.904 1.233 0.885 0.725

none of the above at all list 1:1 Gear Ratio.

Yeh, its close, but we are dealing with a whopping 80kw, and every kw is an aid!

and the *averaging it out* post made above. oh come on... that means that half of those engines are making MORE than the *average*.

eg, a blacktop would then be putting out more like 130kw than the quoted 126...

a 130kw blacktop would go quite nicly... i highly doubt that.....

just advance timing people the answer to all problems. More det? advance!

If CozmoNz's post is correct there is no 1:1 drive ratio on a whole bunch of gear boxes so 'picking 4th gear' on 'any car' will not give you 1:1

If you really want I can get the dyno sheets of the AE86 I talked about. We dyno'd it and had been told that it had a 5.3 diff in it so this was the figure we put into the dyno and with this figure the dyno rev reading and the vehicle rev counter were pretty much exact. The result was 144hp at the wheels. After finding out that the Diff ratio was actually 4.78 and that the rev counter was way out the car with no change to engine/ecu gained the best part of 20hp at the wheels. The only difference between the runs was the diff ratio entered.

Ummm isn't drifter4ag talking about rwd gearbox? If any of your knew how a rwd box worked, 4th gear usually locks the input and output shaft, creating 1:1 ratio

Gear Ratios 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th Reverse
T-50 3.587 2.022 1.384 1.00 0.861 3.48
T-50 TRD#1 2.63 1.891 1.38 1.00 0.861 3.48
T-50 TRD#2 2.341 1.607 1.195 1.00 0.886 3.48
T-50 TRD#3 2.960 1.607 1.195 1.00 0.886 3.48
T-50 Quaife 2.347 1.733 1.379 1.144 1.0 3.48
K-50 3.79 2.22 1.44 1 0.87 4.32
AE 101 Transaxle 3.166 1.904 1.392 1.031 0.815 3.250
Caterham 6 Speed 2.69 2.01 1.59 1.32 1.13 1.0 (6th)

Meaning 4th would yeild less loss through the driveline, and more power at the wheels.

As for diff ratio, the diff ratio matters to work out the engine RPM, which is then the multiplier of torque to give your power output, of course a different final will make a difference but only on hub dyno.

[matt dunn]

Surely plotting against ground speed is not desirable, cos how do you know where your power band/s are and how do you know where you you are moving it to when tuning?

The first dyno day I went to was a rolling road and they gave me a print out showing power to speed (kmh)

That was absolutly useless to me as my car has no speedo so where the hell is my power band???

On hub dyno's the reading is only as accurate as the diff ratio you enter.

And 90% of RWD gearboxes are 1.1 4th as there are no physical gears in there.

However, our focus has 1:1 5th gear. It's a hollenger special as normally they are 1:1 6th but we needed the overdrive to get the speed.

matt

[deaf_rattle]

i too think torque performance dyno readings are fairly accurate.
90.3 kws 5mge with pod filter
96.5 with 2.5" exhaust

they have always stated that removing the cat in a MA61 will result in an extra 10hp at the wheels.

there are always going to be people that complain, you cant please everyone.

[suberimakuri]

for real guys, get a life whinging about ratios, drivetrain loss and shit.

if you don't believe the power or think it's incorrect, go take your car down the drag strip.

then put in your weight and et into the numerous drag power calculators and you'll see it'll all work out.

The guy posting wanted actual dyno figures... to date there's only been a couple apart from the ones on our site.
nz_Ae86: please post up your dynos then.

going back to the same dyno is good for comparison, but as matt said, they run in shootout mode so a comparative around the place. We have been back to back on different dynos to confirm this.

also, power doesn't matter if you going to sit it in the garage or if it never sees the light of day.

oh, and for a dyno day, it takes a long time to hook up rpm signal, and would you trust every man and there dogs tacho out/coil neg (if any) ??
If you don't get road speed then just go somewhere else.


i'm over it.