(Not so)High RPM 3SGE.

[RomanV]

Ive been thinking that a bit later down the track, I might want to spend a bit more money on my engine. (Probably in a year or 2's time.. If I havent come to my senses, and bought a 3sgte instead by then )

It will be reasonably standard in the meantime.
However it seems wise to plan ahead a little.
What would I need to do, in order to safely take it to 8,000rpm or so? (with regards to ensuring the engine wont blow to bits, as opposed to what mods I would need to make power that high in the RPM range... Will worry about that later!)

I suppose some forged pistons would be a good idea, less moving mass and therefore less stress on the rods.
What about getting the rods shot peened?
Will harder valve springs be necessary?
Aftermarket rod bolts/head studs?
I wonder how interchangable the Altezza parts are. (e.g. Higher compression pistons, cams, aftermarket parts that are available, etc)
Its only 775rpm above factory rev limit anyway I suppose.

The only thing Ive done so far that makes this engine different from factory in terms of revvability is getting the pistons/rods/crank/flywheel balanced.

Is there anything else I should think about doing?
Im sure someone here has built a high rev/hp 3sge/3sgte before.
*Leers at Anthony/Fivebob/Dodgy/Celica RA45*

Cheers
Roman

[RS13]

From what I've heard/seen/read, 3SGE's seem to have bad oiling systems, hence why they regularly shit bigends when punished? I'd look at upgrading the oil system first, reducing the rotating mass (lightened flywheel etc), I'm sure the factory 3SGE head could do 8000rpm without having to uprate the valve springs? I don't see any reason to go all out, perhaps mill the head for a tad more compression, thinner head gasket.. and as you point out, its' only 775rpm more than the limiter anyway. (I know for a fact that B16A vtec motors (although limited at 8200) can easily do 9000rpm, without touching anything, although this is pointless, as peak torque has come and gone at 7600rpm!)

Any more serious mods than that, and I'd say it would be cheaper to start with a beams motor? I like 3SGE's, don't get me wrong, but spending more working an older version, when you could spend the same amount on a newer motor that does everything the old one does (except more reliably!) just seems pointless?

[RomanV]

Hehe, I agree. Not worth spending money on a gen 2.
Sorry, I should have clarified.
The motor in question is a beams motor.
With a few tricks up its sleeve already
So I doubt that the problems associated with a gen 2 (eg. oil issues)
will apply to this engine.

[anthonym]

The only thing you need to run that motor to 8k is a nice frilly pink girl's blouse .

[RomanV]

Can I borrow one of yours?

[RS13]

I say if you're going to go all out, why not aim for 9000rpm?

But then, you'd still only making the power levels of a mild 3SGTE.. which also would cost less?

[RomanV]

At no point, did I ever say that this project was cost effective.

[bad20v]

What would I need to do, in order to safely take it to 8,000rpm or so?

Get a 20v!!!!


*waits for the 'but I want more power not less' b.s. thats sure to follow.*

[RomanV]

Please dont taint this thread with talk of 20v's.

[RS13]

Hahahah, true.

Why we're on the subject, why not just bin the 3S,

Get some of these:



And get one of these:



And do lots of these:

[RomanV]

I dont need large testicles and a 1uz to do mean skids...

Ive got a 4k (bigblock ) powered KP starlet.

[RS13]

btw, I have no idea what that lady thinks she's doing.. although, she seems to be enjoying it..

[fivebob]

8000rpm??? I thought from the title of this thread you wanted to run something more serious than that pathetic figure, like 10,000rpm

FWIW I run 8000rpm on my stock internals Gen III 3S-GTE so you're going to have to go higher than that to justify the thread title. According to Phoenix Power the rods let go at 8600, and the crank is a problem over 9200, but that's the 3S-GTE, don't know if they're the same parts.

[RomanV]

No the rods arent the same, but IIRC Anthony said that the cranks were identical.

Alright, so 8,000 RPM isnt that high in the scheme of things.
But Im trying to keep things realistic aswell, I would rather have a small goal that is acheivable rather than something major that is never going to happen, like a lot of people out there seem to have.

Well let me rephrase that then...

It would seem that all I need to do to get to 8,000rpm, is don my racing blouse.

What would be required to get to 8500, or 9000 rpm?

I mean.... some things might be required, whereas others would be pointless.

If I could safely get to 8500 by using GTE rods and forged pistons, it would be worth my while.
However if to reach 8500 I have to replace virtually everything, then its not going to be worth it.
Although I suppose this is anyones guess, until I blow something up.

Edit: Thread title changed. Happy now?

[Celica RA45]

std fwd beams should have red line at 7800 rpm same as altezza 3sge motors
to get it up to 8800rpm like mine you need to change the rod ratio 8mm longer rods and slipper pistons with 20mm gudgeon
at the moment know i only buy fwd 3sge motors as you dont get any thing out of the exhaust cam ,we just move the inlet for power and the added expense of the titatium valves and slight higher comp of the altezza motor isnt worth the cost ,as the head is the same casting anyway

[RomanV]

I say if you're going to go all out, why not aim for 9000rpm?

11 year thread bump:

[Dell'Orto]

It's over 9000!

[RS13]

Nice, about time.