Quad throttles on 16v

[SpeedRacer]

Ok... i kno its been asked before, but have been doing my research and can't find alot of definate information.

First: Has anyone done this?
Second: Does it bolt straight up or do I need an adaptor?
Third: Do I NEED an after market computer?
Foruth: MAP Sensor issues? (20v doesn't hav 1 but 16v do)

Speed

(Don't Hurt Me!)

[atmosports]

First: Yes plenty of people have done it.
Second: No they won't bolt straight up, you need any adaptor/manifold to suit
Third: You could possibly get away with it on a map based ecu rather than AFm based but then you've changed all the intake lengths/intake restrictions etc & you fuelling would be wrong, but you could get it to work if you wanted to piss around with it probably.
Fourth: Black top 20V has a map sensor but try finding qa balcktop intake setup, however regardless of what you use you'll probably need to take a map signal from each throttlebody to get a strong enough & stable enough reading to get it too run.

Every car I've seent his done too has run an aftermarket computer probably as they had other modifications as well as just the throttlebodies.

As for a manifold/adaptor do a search in the for sale section as I know I'm not the only one who has advertised these for sale.

Hope this helps as for the stock ecu questions someone here will know more about that than me as I don't waste my time with them as aftermarket ecu's only cost me the purchase price as I install/tune myself.

[evil_si]

for an adaptor, im currently making a couple up, 2 differnet designs, will have pics available in a week.

[suberimakuri]

read on club4ag forums about this.

[ROBODISCO_20v]

www.club4ag.com

[ROBODISCO_20v]

Individual Throttle Body - 20V 4-throttle on 16V 4A-GE
Another popular topic these days is adapting the individual throttles from the 20V onto the 16V..."Can this be done?" You bet! But there are many obstacles which may hinder your attempt and here's some of them. NO! you will not be able to use the 16V ECU to run the throttle as fuel map requirements are vastly different for the 20'v throttle unit. The lower rpm ranges require much less fuel while in the upper ranges the throttle needs significantly more fuel. Since the whole idea of making precise fuel maps are the key to making the difficult and sensitive 4 throttle to work well, it is not a matter of backyard tuning by simply shifting AFM or Vacuum Sensor signals or shuffling fuel pressures. You must almost always use an aftermarket or re-computed ECU get anywhere near the operation you need...even to match the original spec of the single throttle you tossed in the garbage. Second, since the 20V's idle is controlled not by the TPS and the throttle body, but rather a secondary port called ISCV which leaks idle air in a controlled manner aft of the fully closed throttles. Since the 16V engines never had this, you have to figure out a way to devise a similar tactics through your own ingenious method. The throttle in any case must be fully closed to get idle mixture control on. The manifold will not bolt on to the 16V's intake so an adapter should be used or fabricated. Overall, not many of the private shops have successfully made such setups perform better than what can easily be done with the single throttle, even though almost all of them have succeeded in getting a car to run decently. That said, there are a handful of shops that did make things work wonderfully (all in Japan that I have seen) with the 20V throttle mechanism and kits are available. Be cautioned that they are NOT cheap and greatly exceeds the cost of swapping the entire 20V instead, because it will require a fully programmable ECU and their research results in the form of software. For many of us, a set of side draft carburetor will be a more effective and much cheaper option than grafting the individual throttles on the 16V.

This is what club 4ag had to say in their FAQ. What a load of rubbish. Brendon ex nite parts has done this on a 16v small port & had it running fine with the factory ecu. I know karl of garage dori has done it too but i think he was running a link ecu. Get in contact with these geezers & they'll be able to sort you out.

[suberimakuri]

no, not rubbish.

Brendan at Nite Parts did a few things to get it to run really well.

I ran my 16v smallport with 20v silvertop quads initially on stock ecu, but it doesn't fuel right, and is actually slower then stock manifold.

I run megasquirt on all my motors, and this or another aftermarket ecu is the optimal way.

The way the map signal corresponds with load on a quad setup is completely different to single throttle manifold.
ie: quads = exponentional map vs load.
single throttle = linear map vs load.

[ROBODISCO_20v]

Well they make it sound harder than it really is. You must have some lying around that you could sell this geezer?
Making a comment that carbs would be cheaper than the quad is debatable too. I'd rather run the std 16v inj than carbs.

What engine you running now mr skews? Every time i see you you're running something different.
My blk top's rings expired on me. My factory ecu was doing some dumb shit with the fuel, I've scince fixed it with a SAFC 2 but it was to late. The engines in at CHRS in Wairau Rd getting recon'd. Once it's all going again I'll take it over to a NZPC dyno day. Should get about 110kW at the wheels.

Carl

[suberimakuri]

well, there's definitley lots you can do. You can get soumd easy. But response and power is anothetr story.
If it was me, I would get Tama Auto's to sort out tune and other parts.... no point mucking about if others know the way....and boy... it is an awesome sound... and boy it can be an aweseome tune,.