3SGE race motor

[fivebob]

Do some research to back this up but...
The gen3 3sge has shim under bucket which means easier access to high revs without bits (shims) getting out of place.

Sure does. Same as with my GT4 engine which now revs to 8k. See no reason why the Gen II head can't be made to run the same set-up.
Gary

Easy fix, just use shimless buckets out of a 1zz-fe, and save approx 30gms per bucket from your valve train weight at the same time

[GT4 20]

I wouldnt reccomend the gen 2 engine at all.... the head and intake manifold look really crappy.

Surely that isn't applicable for me here? As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I'd be getting the head ported etc and using throttle bodies.

Easy fix, just use shimless buckets out of a 1zz-fe, and save approx 30gms per bucket from your valve train weight at the same time

Cool

Gary

[Malcolm]

the intake ports on the gen 4 come in at a much better angle, look at Roman's pic - the gen 1-3 heads come in much closer to horizontal (wrt. the headgasket mating face).
That being said, I'm sure the gen 3s have been shown to make some good power at the hands of the right builder

[GT4 20]

Is there enough 'meat' on the Gen II head to replicate the Gen IV's intake port angle?
Gary

[Malcolm]

don't think so. I'm sure you can get almost as good, I don't know how much that angle effects the power output.

The exhaust sides were much more similar. Have you called Lynn to pick his brains about which head to use? If you still had your old head from the st205 you could happily use that on a gen 2 na block to save the expense of buying a gen 3

[RomanV]

Yes but really, how much more is a gen 3 going to cost anyway?

They came in quite a few different cars, and were relatively common...

I wouldnt have thought that it would be too hard to find one at a reasonable price.

BTW the frasers often use NA 3S engines, and get some good HP out of them. (About 200hp out of a gen 3 with carbs IIRC?) If you were going to go the 3S route, perhaps they would be good people to talk to. Along with Lynn of course.

[GT4 20]

I know where I can easily get my hands on a Gen II motor. I think the first step will be to ensure that it will fit in the engine bay and that it will be possible to mate the Rover gearbox to it. Once I have confirmed that I can have a chat with Neil and Lynn.
Gary

[gtpornstar]

What are the sizes for the 3S motor ?

[sleeektoy]

You might have already looked into this but...

A 1MZ-FE vvti engine from a late model toyota avalon might be what you are lookin for

Output is 230 hp (172 kW) at 5800 RPM with 242 ft·lbf (328 N·m) of torque at 4400 RPM

This shows an MR2 being fitted with one in place of a 3S-GE!!

http://brad.bedell.home.comcast.net/mis ... plete.html

3.0 litre V6

[Mr Revhead]

i dont get why ppl put those V6s in there....

for the cost you can make the 3sgte a lot lot LOT better.
also i doubt the avalon engine would fit where gary wants to put it

[D-T]

also i doubt the avalon engine would fit where gary wants to put it

don't make it sound so Dirty Mr Revhead

i'm interested in any information/photos etc you can put up in regards to your work Gary.

=) good luck!

'3S have the powa'

[RomanV]

i dont get why ppl put those V6s in there....

for the cost you can make the 3sgte a lot lot LOT better.
also i doubt the avalon engine would fit where gary wants to put it

Because most of the people doing the swaps, start out with 5sfes in their american SW20s.

[Mr Revhead]

very good point roman!

[GT4 20]

Looks like I've found a Gen IV head complete with coilpacks etc and a Gen II block for an unbelievably stupid price. Very happy - let the modding commence
Gary

[RomanV]

Looks like I've found a Gen IV head complete with coilpacks etc and a Gen II block for an unbelievably stupid price. Very happy - let the modding commence
Gary

Dont believe the nay sayers that tell you that you cant run a VVTI head on a non VVTI block....

If you look on the TRD web page,
The fixed cams from TRD for these engines actually come with plugs, plug those oil feed lines regardless.

Although apparently the extra oil gallery also feeds into part of the head, so dont take that as gospel... Make sure you check it out properly for yourself.

P.S. Gen 2 3S blocks are quite prone to cracking apparently, according to one chap that ran an AW11 with a 3S in the rear at a few targas.
(Well he ran a few 3S's in there... Because the blocks kept on cracking!)
Becuase of the high revs I think.

BTW, is it an Altezza dual VVTI head, or a single VVTI head?
Blacktop, grey top, or redtop? From an Auto or manual?

Inquiring minds need to know.

[GT4 20]

AFAIK, it's from a Caldina GT-T. No idea what transmission it was.

Good to know about the Gen II block failures. Any ideas where they cracked? May use the block for the dummy build and source a Gen III or IV block for the 'real' motor.
Gary

[RomanV]

There was a thread about the blocks, I cant remember specifically, but Toyota revised the blocks after 97... So even if you ordered a gen 2 block brand new, it would be revised/reinforced.

Was it the NA, or turbo head?

If it was an NA head, it will be the 190hp 'greytop' engine.
AFAIK exactly the same as the 200hp manual version, except the cams are different, so it makes peak hp at 4400 or so instead of 6000rpm.
As there was never an MT NA GT caldina.

Not that it will matter to you.

I cant comment much on a gen 4 caldina turbo head, as I've never seen one.

[GT4 20]

There was a thread about the blocks, I cant remember specifically, but Toyota revised the blocks after 97... So even if you ordered a gen 2 block brand new, it would be revised/reinforced.

Ah, that problem.

Was it the NA, or turbo head?

If it was an NA head, it will be the 190hp 'greytop' engine.
AFAIK exactly the same as the 200hp manual version, except the cams are different, so it makes peak hp at 4400 or so instead of 6000rpm.
As there was never an MT NA GT caldina.

Not that it will matter to you.

I'm not sure whether it is NA or FI. Doesn't really matter at the end of the day as the valve gear will be replaced anyway
Gary

[fivebob]

There was a thread about the blocks, I cant remember specifically, but Toyota revised the blocks after 97... So even if you ordered a gen 2 block brand new, it would be revised/reinforced.

Ah, that problem.

Which problem are you referring to as "that" problem. The cracking between #2 & 3 cylinders, or cracking around the waterpump mounts?

The cracking between cylinders shouldn't be an issue on a NA engine, but the one around waterpump housing could well be, but IMO that's probably cause by the way the top mount attaches to the head, so you can minimise the issues by some careful design work.

Was it the NA, or turbo head?
...
Not that it will matter to you.

I'm not sure whether it is NA or FI. Doesn't really matter at the end of the day as the valve gear will be replaced anyway
Gary

It will only matter in that the FI head will be easier to fit as it's not VVTi, and is in fact just a Gen III head, with minor revisions to remove the distributor and add the cam timing sensor attachment point.

[GT4 20]

Which problem are you referring to as "that" problem. The cracking between #2 & 3 cylinders, or cracking around the waterpump mounts?

The former. Something that I had to take into consideration when I had by Gen III block bored out. Ultrasound confirmed I had a decent bit of meat between the cylinders.

The cracking between cylinders shouldn't be an issue on a NA engine, but the one around waterpump housing could well be, but IMO that's probably cause by the way the top mount attaches to the head, so you can minimise the issues by some careful design work.

Wasn't aware of the water pump housing issue. Plan is to gut the Toyota pump anyway and run with a Davies Craig EWP with an electronic control unit.

Was it the NA, or turbo head?
...
Not that it will matter to you.

I'm not sure whether it is NA or FI. Doesn't really matter at the end of the day as the valve gear will be replaced anyway
Gary

It will only matter in that the FI head will be easier to fit as it's not VVTi, and is in fact just a Gen III head, with minor revisions to remove the distributor and add the cam timing sensor attachment point.

Cool. I like easy Guess that why I've chosen to put a Toyota engine in a Rover

Gary