Touchy Subject but, The AE86 Status

[vvega]

IMO its more because they dont want to get into machines liek teh e55
after all mass manufacture makes cars cheap
but throw somthing specail in there and you watch teh costs rocket

and at the end of the day
people that buy cars of that sort of value want things that japanses cars just dont offer

reality noone would turn up to a exclusive country club (one that costs 20-30k a year to join) in a god dam toyota

japa's offer no status none at all
and when you get into this field value for money isnt a valid reason

v

[Dell'Orto]

But how much of that "status" is because of the fact they cost so much? People of that kind of ilk tend to be snobby pricks who wont talk to you unless you're wearing a $3k suit.
I bet if some some reason the prices were reversed, they'd prefer TRD tweaked Century's over AMG Mercs.

[RS13]

Hah, thats' partially because most New Zealanders have the mindset that anyone in a car with a BMW or Mercedes badge on the front, must be a wanker!

Snooty businessmen, and rich housewives aside, I love BMW's.. after going for a ride in an M3, for a 3.2L straight six.. I was shocked! I've been in some damn fast cars, but not many could touch this car! It was just as fast from 100km/h to 200km/h as it was from 0-100km/h! And could be thrown around any corner, at any rate of knots.. no understeer, oversteer on command.. just stunning. European car makers are light years ahead of the Japanese in terms of getting it right!

Its' just a damn shame, they're so freaking expensive!

I honestly can't understand people saying that their dream car is a an ae-86.. it's a corolla! Have something to aspire to guys!

Hahah!

[vvega]

But how much of that "status" is because of the fact they cost so much? People of that kind of ilk tend to be snobby pricks who wont talk to you unless you're wearing a $3k suit.
I bet if some some reason the prices were reversed, they'd prefer TRD tweaked Century's over AMG Mercs.

trd cant do anything to even touch e55 man

picture this
your on teh autobarn cruzing at 260 km/h in your e55
and you feel like you need a burst of speed so you give it a jab on the gas
and bang you hit speed cut at 280 km/h
just as fast as if you were in a evo doing 160 and then tring to hit speed cut

thats where your money is
and remeber
this is a family car
it has a plush ride
heated seats
comparmental aircon
tv and dvd player
a KICK ARSE stereo
has dinner sized brakes and 6 pots
and can smoke the bags at will

all this and its stock

yeah i can see why you would wanna buy a jappa instead

lol
v

[deaf_rattle]

would like to see a standard jappa keep up with this badboy

[Punter]

^^^ I've always love 840's, not all that expensive now days either.

[deaf_rattle]

find one of those models tho

[vvega]

i drove a 750 csi a few years back for a week
man what a car

v

[Punter]

Is this one??

I can't tell from the photo.

[deaf_rattle]

850csi


bling bling

[TRD Man]

sory there but the celica started life RWD

That's irrelevant. The ST160 series were FWD cars.

i also belive that teh st160 and 165 came out around teh same time, earliest st160 ive seen is 1986 and the earliest 165 ive seen is also 86

The ST160 began production in July 1985. The ST165 began in Oct 1986.
It is fair to assume that the ST165 is an adapted ST160

all that still dosent make it a classic

No it wouldn't. The ST165 might qualify as a classic because of it's motorsport achievements. Being the 1st Japanese 4WD car to compete with the Europeans on an even footing and then beating them. Being a World Rally championship winning car perhaps.

it is what the masses think
one man or in this case a small cult group cannot call a car a classic

The point I'm making & you're missing is that the term classic is nothing more than a word in the English language that has reasonably clear definitions. It is not an exclusive club. It is not a measure of performance or quality or popularity. Or of country of origin.
You are correct in saying that one man cannot determine that a car is a classic. But neither can the masses. History determines it.
If a car has historical significance then it is a classic.
It matters not whether it's a good car, a bad car, a boring car. Whether people like it or not. Whether it's made from plastic or tin or elephant turds.
If it has historical significance it is a classic. End of story.
And as much as one man, or the masses, cannot determine classic eligibility neither can one man, nor the masses, deny it.

there really nothing specail about the ae-86 friom a engineering pont of view

You're quite correct here. It is probably on a par with a BDA Escort but arrived 10 years later so nothing special there.

aside from winning a few races what makes teh ae-86 so specail as to deam it a classic ??

Well, winning a few races is a factor. As are who it was raced by, who drove it, where & when. What it represented. What it brought to, not only motorsport, but motoring or motoring enthusiasts (even if they are only lowly Toyota enthusiasts) in general.

[Mad Murphy]

I think the AE86 is a classic to some extent, but definately more of a cult classic. At the end of the day it didn't really offer anything that hadn't been done before and it's still a Corolla. Personally I like them but I'd rather have my MR2 than an AE86 (stock one anyway).

[vvega]

you missed teh point
whats teh historical significance of the ae-86
what landmark did it make to make it historical ??

point is your calling it a classic
and im not

im asking for your reasoning and your not providing anythign to convince me that its any differnt from every other mass produced car

and depends on what your claming classic means

is it a classic for you ??
or is it a classic for everyone

and sorry but if nobody thinks soimethign is classic then it will be forgoton and therfore has no historical significance
IMO its not
and thats what your missing
i dont have to agree with you
i dont have to follow what you say

im simply expressing that i can see no reason to justafie that is a classic car
im not missing any points your just failing to see that i siimply dont agree with you and no amount of end of storys or telling me how you think it is is gunna change that fact

oh and please dont compare a ae-86 with a bda
thats just insulting to somthign that has real racing heratage and is a true classic
theres no prizes for last place and 10 years to late by your own admission woudl surly make it a loser

just my thoughts
take it or leave it

v

[no_8wire]

I like Toyotas...but if some one offered me a F40....well yeah what can you say? A real sports car...

vvega wrote;
"these cars set the standerds of there era i cannot say the ae-86 did this"
"its just a cheap mass manufactured sports car"


thats Exactly whats the ae86 did! they where a mass produced sporty car that most ppl could afford, they where the first 16valve mass produced engined car that as available to the public. and yes ae86 was the first car to have the 4age, yes the cosworth 16valve was almost the same engine(in design) but could anyone get ahold of one? NO.

What about the 84 AW11's?...


popular car...classic to some, but not to all...

I mean the Model T is a classic...everyone regards it as such...

But a ae86...mmm

[vvega]

yeah i thought the aw11 got the 4age first......

v

[HELBND]

EDIT - bah... foiled by lack of information

[Xyrath 86]

AE86 came out in 83 .

[deaf_rattle]

I like Toyotas...but if some one offered me a F40....well yeah what can you say? A real sports car...

fore shore and seabed. id do an f40

[vvega]

AE86 came out in 83 .

lol just found out

lol

[TRD Man]

oh and please dont compare a ae-86 with a bda
thats just insulting to somthign that has real racing heratage and is a true classic

Don't preach to me about BDA's buddy. I owned one. Have you?
We rallied Escorts in the 70's. I loved them. In fact I believe I owned about a dozen in different guises throughout that time.
They were troublesome buggers though so we switched to Datsuns, tried a couple of Mazda's and then settled on Toyota's.

The comparison that I made with the BDA was purely to do with it's mechanical makeup. The AE86 is every bit the equal of a BDA in that respect. That's all.

Like you, I find the AE86 lacking in character/charisma. I've never been sufficiently enthused about the model to either own none or race one. I believe I've already said that.

In fact, there's a lot, about which, I agree with you. I'm a Euro fan too. I've owned a couple of Porsches & my wife drives a 328 M/Sport (her third such model). There's certainly a distinct difference in quality and I can't see the Japs catching up anytime soon..

Be that as it may, the AE86 has a place in history that would justify classic status. What you & I think doesn't matter. I can accept that. Is your ego too big to allow you to accept that too?