cutting springs vs compressing springs

[l1ttle_d3vil]

apart from the fact you can't get a WOF with cut springs, is there any other reason why you would compress springs over cutting them and shortening the shocks?

either way, the springs will still be captive; so why not do it?

[FrEsH]

becasue its dodgy as and you could kill someone when your car bounces rond a corner into the opposite lane...

[fangsport]

becasue its dodgy as and you could kill someone when your car bounces rond a corner into the opposite lane...

part of the reason why cutties cause a car bounce is more due to std height shocks that either bottom out or are rooted and un-captive springs with a shorter shock, half of the problem is cured.

if you are trying to go really low on compressed springs, wouldn't coil bind become an issue??

i am in no way condoning the use of cutties, but have used them in a captive state on the rally car (for tarmac use) on many occaisions, and never had the car bouncing all over the road.

[RedMist]

i am in no way condoning the use of cutties, but have used them in a captive state on the rally car (for tarmac use) on many occaisions, and never had the car bouncing all over the road.

By cutting the springs you are also raising spring rate. My guess is you had some reasonable aftermarket or near new shocks on your rally car? As such the increased spring rate would have been taken care of by the increased rebound and compression damping.

Also what happens when the spring goes coilbound on a cut spring? Aren't you forcing the shock piston to take the load? Or do all strut suspensions have a bump stop? As such isnt coil bind more of a failsafe, something you want?

[l1ttle_d3vil]

I am wanting it reasonably low. my old ke springs were almost cut in half; thats about the height im wanting with my new setup (i'm using ae85 struts/springs now, not ke).

is having the springs compressed to this low going to cause a problem then? that was somethin i hadn't previously thought about until it was mentioned here.

also, i am after a pretty exact ride height and it might be a bit difficult to get the exact height if getting them compressed. would I be better off getting them compressed by say 2" and then putting them in my car, and then cutting half a coil off or something like that, once I know exactly how high everything is going to be and how much lower i need to go. im guessing cutting just half of a coil off isn't anywhere as bad as cutting the entire spring in half...

i'm not trying to say cutting springs is a good idea, im just wondering if there is a "safe" way to do it at all, or if cutting springs full stop is dangerous (even if it is only half a coil)

[Rick]

Why do you want it so low the ride quality will be absolutely sh!t, unless you are going to be using it on the track, at the end of the day compressing the factory springs will do the job of lowering the car but the spring rates etc will never be correct or as good as say the TRD race springs. I wouldnt cut springs at all!!!! either get adjustables or the TRD race springs and shorten your strutts.

This is the ride height of my car with TRD race springs with shortened strutts: Note tyre profile is wrong the tyres shown are 205/60 profile where as they need to be 205/50

[l1ttle_d3vil]

Why do you want it so low the ride quality will be absolutely sh!t. I wouldnt cut springs at all!!!! either get adjustables or the TRD race springs and shorten your strutts.

im not worried about the ride quality, its already bouncy as a mother ***** anyway; it doesn't worry me at all.

i already have some ae85 struts and springs ready to bolt straight into my car, i just need the ride height of them sorted. i am not going to go to the expense of TRD race sprins or adjustables; the car is not for the track or anything. just a round town daily driver.

[slighty_sykotic]

Expense?

Like $200 arnt they from revhead?

And that bouncyness......surely you can see that it affects the way you drive = loss of control.

--Sykotic

[GT4 20]

im not worried about the ride quality, its already bouncy as a mother ***** anyway; it doesn't worry me at all..

This is exactly the reason why the LTSA and the Government have such strict rules in place - and I'm sure that they'll get even worse as time goes by. Suspension is there for a reason. It's not simply to make the car look 'cool' so you can impress your brainless mates, it is there to abosrb bumps etc on the road ensuring that the tyres are kept in contact with the tarmac.
By removing ride quality and making the car as "bouncy as a mother *****", you are potentially destroying the cars suspension and therefore its ability to handle correctly. So, when you hit a big bump, instead of absorbing the 'impact', the car will bounce all over the place, causing the car to leave its intended path and either into a ditch or some poor innocent sod conming the other way.

Very low ride heights and 'stiff' suspension only have one place - the track. A well sorted full time track car will completely outhandle a road car with sensible suspenion on a circuit. But put both cars on a public road and see what happens

Keep it sensible. It's attitudes like yours which are ruining it for the rest of us sensible car enthusiats
Gary

[Mr Revhead]

the words death trap come to mind.....

do it RIGHT. bouncy = very bad

[l1ttle_d3vil]

Keep it sensible. It's attitudes like yours which are ruining it for the rest of us sensible car enthusiats
Gary

that is actually my whole reason for this post. i don't have any sort of bad attitude towards this; my car has always been completely legal and it always will be.
i wasn't exactly sure on all the regulations to do with springs, which is why I asked before doing anything.

and yes, my car is already really bouncy - but it is totally legal and certed.

[Mr Revhead]

Why do you want it so low the ride quality will be absolutely sh!t, unless you are going to be using it on the track, at the end of the day compressing the factory springs will do the job of lowering the car but the spring rates etc will never be correct or as good as say the TRD race springs. I wouldnt cut springs at all!!!! either get adjustables or the TRD race springs and shorten your strutts.

This is the ride height of my car with TRD race springs with shortened strutts: Note tyre profile is wrong the tyres shown are 205/60 profile where as they need to be 205/50

theres ya answer there......

[l1ttle_d3vil]

so why is it completely legal to compress springs + shorten the shocks of a car so its all captive, if it is so dangerous?

i understand the fact that if the car is bouncy it is more likely to bounce off the road than a car with standard suspension; but surely if it was that dangerous the government would be alot tougher on it wouldn't they?

how many accidents / peoples deaths are caused by noisy exhausts? and how tough are they on exhausts compared to a car which has compressed springs, shortened shocks and is all certified / completely legal?

so would everyone agree that even compressing springs and shortening the shocks (even though it is legal), is still too dangerous for a road car?

[Mr Revhead]

a wof unspecter can and will fail it on a wof if he feels its unsafe.

however how many inspecters actually road test a car these days.....

[l1ttle_d3vil]

a wof unspecter can and will fail it on a wof if he feels its unsafe.

...as in it is too bouncy? even if the car is legally lowered?

obviously there are aspects of lowering a vehicle properly which I am unaware of; but thats why i'm asking before doing. its not that I think its cool to remove my springs all together so my exhaust drags on the ground. thanks to those who have provided me with proper information i'm looking for!!

what other ways are there around this? would it be suitable if something like super low king springs were installed and compressed about 1", would that provide a softer / safer setup?

or is low ride height and soft suspension impossible to get together?

[Mr Revhead]

yep if they drive it and deem it to have unsafe handling they can fail it.

doesnt happen often enough imo

from experience compressing king superlows will not be a fun ride.....

to go as low as you want you need to look at coil overs or a good custom set up.
you wont do it for $250

[fangsport]

By cutting the springs you are also raising spring rate. My guess is you had some reasonable aftermarket or near new shocks on your rally car? As such the increased spring rate would have been taken care of by the increased rebound and compression damping.

that would be a negative. well used standard shocks with a shorter stroke. suffice to say, due to abuse, they didn't last long and had no rebound when taken out

Also what happens when the spring goes coilbound on a cut spring? Aren't you forcing the shock piston to take the load? Or do all strut suspensions have a bump stop? As such isnt coil bind more of a failsafe, something you want?

you would need very short stroke shocks to bind a cut spring, but with half the munters with so-called legal cars, anything is possible

Keep it sensible. It's attitudes like yours which are ruining it for the rest of us sensible car enthusiats
Gary

that is actually my whole reason for this post. i don't have any sort of bad attitude towards this; my car has always been completely legal and it always will be.
i wasn't exactly sure on all the regulations to do with springs, which is why I asked before doing anything.

and yes, my car is already really bouncy - but it is totally legal and certed.

legal, certed and safe are 3 completely different aspects. if you want your arse dragging on the tarmac, with no control, buy a go-cart, it would appear that one has the suspension set-up you are trying to achieve.

[fangsport]

how many accidents / peoples deaths are caused by noisy exhausts? and how tough are they on exhausts compared to a car which has compressed springs, shortened shocks and is all certified / completely legal?

they are tough on exhausts because little tossers go to there exhaust shop to get a deliberately noisy one fitted and then proceed to annoy the bejesus out of people when they are trying to sleep. a common mis-conception with tryhards is that a noisy exhaust = power, like wise a lowered car = handling.

[wde_bdy]

Compressing springs or shortening shocks is not legal without cert anyway (shorter stroke inserts are though). I would simply get custom wound springs to suit the ride and height you want, its not that costly. You simply can't have low AND soft as the car will bottom out to easily which is very dangerous. To do it properly you need to shorten the strut housings in order to retain sufficient suspension travel, then you will probably need RCA's to correct the steering geometry as well.

Callum

[l1ttle_d3vil]

I would simply get custom wound springs to suit the ride and height you want, its not that costly.

how is custom springs going to be any different to compressed springs? they will still need to be stiff won't they? and stiff springs = bouncy ride.