Anyone got dyno proof of trumpets on a black top?

[4000GT]

I see these offered and people even put them on, but I have not seen any dyno proof that throttle trumpets work on an NA black top. At NZEFI we took the intake pipe off when on the dyno to see and it lost several WHP. I am not sure about trumpets... anyone got proof?

[Ae92typeX]

Whilst I dont have any for blacktops in particular, there is heaps of written material out there which shows the benefits of intake trumpets and length tuning on NA engines. The black top would be no different.

[4000GT]

Whilst I dont have any for blacktops in particular, there is heaps of written material out there which shows the benefits of intake trumpets and length tuning on NA engines. The black top would be no different.

The stock setup uses trumpets, but also the intake pipe etc. I am questioning just using aftermarket type trumpets.

[TRD001]

Im currently getting a 4AGE B/T Installed with 90mm aftermarket trumpets with Independent filters with inner springs.

Sounds Mean, pretty ricey too.

[4000GT]

Im currently getting a 4AGE B/T Installed with 90mm aftermarket trumpets with Independent filters with inner springs.

Sounds Mean, pretty ricey too.

So what was the dyno difference between the stock setup and aftermarket trumpets?

[suberimakuri]

filters will kill any power gain from having the optimal length trumpets.

we did a run with and without trumpets on my old 3sge setup. peak power was within 2kw at the wheels, torque stayed pretty much the same, but the engine was definitely 'smoother' with trumpets.

[Mr Revhead]

running trumpets without an airbox is silly.

just think of all the hot air youll suck in....

what you really want is an airbox around the trumpets with a duct with a big panal filter, ala touring car style.
to get the right trumpet size/shape can take a lot of work
you cant just buy generic ones and expect a gain.

i think circuitlevin knows this hence why hes after dyno proof. something a lot more ppl should think about!

[TRD001]

The airbox around the trumpets is a great way to eliminate the heat,This is one of the many issues around running trumpets that i am lead to belive.

And lets face the facts it's only a 1600cc Toyota engine But all laughs aside, I am Getting my car back next weekend and Im going to run a differnt air setup

90mm Trumpets with indepent filters
HPC Coated aftermarket Extractors
2.5" Mandrel Bent exhaust with only 2 quater bends
and a Nice tip (Of my choice)(yet to be decided)

Im hoping to get some differnce over the original setup i was ging to run.
I will be sure to let yall know when i have the results.

But really it's still only a 4AGE

[Mr Revhead]

did u dyno it before doing that?

[TRD001]

No,

But i would'nt waste the money on a dyno not for a 4age N/A Maybe for a F/I 4AGE

But seriously have you heard the sounds that come out of a 4AGE with trumpets.

Thats the real fun.

[4000GT]

My car is for racing, so I dont give a $&#$% what sound it makes. I am interested in power. yes a box around trumpets may reduce intake temps, but want about the pulse resonance of the valves closing and tuned length? That may overcome the temp change of not having a box. This is what I am getting at. Does have a trumpet overcome the possible temp increase.

I find it surprising that someone spends several hundred dollars on exhaust and trumpets etc but wont spring $60 for a power run to see if it made any difference. Moreover if it did, whats that done to the tune.

[RedMist]

I spent some time studying helmholtz frequencies before installing my aftermarket trumpets and airbox. However In all honesty the ones I selected (off trademe) I'm a little dissapointed in. They are the correct Helmholtz length for my rev range (120mm total length) but they dont have a big enough taper and only rotate 90 degrees at the bellmouth.
Unfortunately I couldnt test before and after trumpet installation as I was pressed for dyno time. 177.5bhp at the wheels, and still needed to be run in.

[4000GT]

I spent some time studying helmholtz frequencies before installing my aftermarket trumpets and airbox. However In all honesty the ones I selected (off trademe) I'm a little dissapointed in. They are the correct Helmholtz length for my rev range (120mm total length) but they dont have a big enough taper and only rotate 90 degrees at the bellmouth.
Unfortunately I couldnt test before and after trumpet installation as I was pressed for dyno time. 177.5bhp at the wheels, and still needed to be run in.

You wouldnt have got that power from trumpets alone. I am assuming cams and valve seat work also? I am making 132WHP on a stock B/T engine. But to get any more power it seems like its 2k+

[RedMist]

Bunderson engine has cost about 8k... I dont add it up in case the wife finds out about how much I spend. Budget for my V6 1600 is 11k, so that project is on hold for a weeeee while.

Its far from the original 16 valve bluetop engine it once started out to be. Cams, shim under, arias OS pistons, TRD bearings throughout, silvertop TB's (keep velocity up) and one tonne of head work.

132bhp is incidentally what I made from my blacktop with KnN, custom exhaust and Link ECU. Made 123 and 125 on my silvertops.

[4000GT]

Bunderson engine has cost about 8k... I dont add it up in case the wife finds out about how much I spend. Budget for my V6 1600 is 11k, so that project is on hold for a weeeee while.

Its far from the original 16 valve bluetop engine it once started out to be. Cams, shim under, arias OS pistons, TRD bearings throughout, silvertop TB's (keep velocity up) and one tonne of head work.

132bhp is incidentally what I made from my blacktop with KnN, custom exhaust and Link ECU. Made 123 and 125 on my silvertops.

I hear you about not adding it up... I spent 50K on my last car in mods, I found out when I added it up for selling it.

I think I will keep it 1600cc for tis season and look at a 3SGTE or whatever a 2.0 Turbo is that fits next year.

[QikStarlie]

anyone played with the idea of variable length runners? even it was just a 2 stage setup, 2 Helmholtz points is better than one. i wont say anymore

[4000GT]

anyone played with the idea of variable length runners? even it was just a 2 stage setup, 2 Helmholtz points is better than one. i wont say anymore

The stock runners are not all equal. 3 are the same though, one different.

[QikStarlie]

no, i mean runners that shorten at higher rpm.

[atmosports]

Yeap played with variable length intake runners in various different applications. Guess the simplest would have been back in the old 2L touring car days when we had to run the stock manifold which in our case either had short or long runners(similar setup to Toyota's TVIS), other cars just had them wired/welded one way or another, we played around a bit & through various extra nits & pieces managed to get them working again for our application, it made a huge difference in midrange torque, from memory we run one set done low, the other in the middle & then switched back again at the top emd, this was running an Autronic SM2 & we could get down to 10rpm increments if needed, we also spent a fair bit of time working on the transition fuel/igntion to get it to go even better. Didn't really make any gains in peak power, did get some gains in peak torque though. This was around 1996-98 so I can't remember much without digging out more.

I've also played with essentially fully variable on a 13B PP race motor & it gave huge gains, though not everyone has the time/money to spend on a setup like this, I think we had about 100mm of variance in the length from memory. We ran both an autronic sm4 & a motec m800 on this engine, it took a few extra days on the dyno to get the gain, but it'd be one of the most driveable & useable peripheral port engines I've seen.

Formula one has used variable length runners up until this year when they banned it. Now they just optimise the runner length to suit the power delivery that they need for a certain track.

[QikStarlie]

legend.
very tempted to give it a go on my smallport. probably with just the 2 or maybe 3 points. ive got a fair idea how to set it up/build it. just a matter of finishing the rest of the car first.. and getting bored enough to start it. as you say probably not something thats worth doing for the gains if you couldn't build/setup yourself. or have a stack of cash to throw at it
i could imagine those fully variable runners taking alot of setting up.