Link ecus discussion - split from bazdas thread

[mister2]

as i said before you can do it way cheaper using diff components as i stated, link gze pistons, etc. But of course its not going to be as reliable and a link is a piece of poo.

I disagree, reliability totally comes down to your tuner. Andre (T1M1D) and Ben Diggles (9 sec S12) prove otherwise.

But anyway, small potatoes. Good list, hopefully it will get stickied.

Cheers

Nick

[vvega]

as i said before you can do it way cheaper using diff components as i stated, link gze pistons, etc. But of course its not going to be as reliable and a link is a piece of poo.

I disagree, reliability totally comes down to your tuner. Andre (T1M1D) and Ben Diggles (9 sec S12) prove otherwise.

But anyway, small potatoes. Good list, hopefully it will get stickied.

Cheers

Nick

\

well i dissagree with you
relaibility is a combonation of things

the tuner is what makes the final product relliable
but teh final product still has to be to a standered that can be made to be reliable

you cannot make hunny from horse shit its a proven fact
tried and tested over many years
but hey feel free to argue fact
its what toyspeed is all about

[4agtepwr]

Ben Diggles 9.64 on an old Link plus wasn't to bad i dont reckon. Timid ran a motec but apart from that and the turbo there wasn't to much bling in that engine and it was reliable, just well thought out, well put togeather and very well tunned.
Wicked Engine Baz, wanna do that with mine when it comes time to push the envelope a little further.
Just out of interest wats done to the head and wat sorta lift and duration are the cams your running, and wat swayed you to the 20 valve head?

[RedMist]

Lets not get into a shit slinging match about the Link ECU's. I've run LEM3, LEM4, EvoLink and soon to be a LEMG3. I've always been very impressed with the product even though they are the low end of the Link scale. Good interface, easy to tune, applicable feature set, and absolutely stupidly reliable. I've even cracked the case once to find a seal on the loom had failed and dirty water had trickled onto the board. Still ran without fault. Its the tuners that have made the world of difference, Vaughn Performance, DCH and Brett from CCC all gave results on my simple devices that compared to factory smoothness with fantastic power. I've also heard very good things about NZEFI, who with any luck, will have the "fat cat ST205" to play with for a while.

In regards to your engine cost, its fantastic to see you doing things right and amazingly simple to reach that figure. I budgeted 12k for a NA 6a10 (V6 1600cc) build without ECU. Thats why it currently sits spread throughout the four corners of my garage, where it will stay until I've finished playing with these funny snail like devices strapped to the side of a perfectly good 3S engine.

[mister2]

well i dissagree with you
relaibility is a combonation of things

the tuner is what makes the final product relliable
but teh final product still has to be to a standered that can be made to be reliable

you cannot make hunny from horse sh*t its a proven fact
tried and tested over many years
but hey feel free to argue fact
its what toyspeed is all about

Ah christ I didn't want to get into a "my ECU is better than yours" argument

You say you disagree, but then agree with me! I'd agree that the older Link stuff isn't much chop - but then I think a large part of their problem is because they're cheaper every man and their dog has a crack at tuning them.

This badge snobbery of ECU's is rubbish, we've tuned every sort of ECU under the sun, including a bloody TEC-1 piece of crap (DOS based, non realtime, took ages) and still got a good and reliable result! The only thing that will make one ECU less reliable than the others these days is if your tuner is not competent with them.

Ok, I'll put it to you - on Bazda's motor, what *specifically* about a Link ECU would have made it unreliable?

Mods feel free to split this, obviously getting a bit off topic here. Again, thanks for posting your list though Bazda, makes for interesting reading.

Oh and when I was referring to T1M1D, that was more for the use of GZE pistons than Link, but anyway.

Cheers

Nick

[vvega]

as i said before you can do it way cheaper using diff components as i stated, link gze pistons, etc. But of course its not going to be as reliable and a link is a piece of poo.

I disagree, reliability totally comes down to your tuner. Andre (T1M1D) and Ben Diggles (9 sec S12) prove otherwise.

But anyway, small potatoes. Good list, hopefully it will get stickied.

Cheers

Nick

youve focused on one tinny bit of your quote
i did not bag the ecu
in fact if you read my post correctly instead of seeing what you wanted you would have seen that i was talking about the engine....mecanically
and if you read your post you mentioned teh engine....mechanicaly
...
..
....
..
the ecu is only a small part of the small part of teh build cost
its not the entire reliabilty package
i argued because you said in your words that relabilty come down to the tuner.......
i guess of teh ecu it will
but not of teh reliability package and ere talking a package not a ecu



when i went to school reading and comprahention was a requirement
i guess you missed that class :d

j/k

v

[JT]

as i said before you can do it way cheaper using diff components as i stated, link gze pistons, etc. But of course its not going to be as reliable and a link is a piece of poo.

I disagree, reliability totally comes down to your tuner. Andre (T1M1D) and Ben Diggles (9 sec S12) prove otherwise.

...
the ecu is only a small part of the small part of teh build cost
its not the entire reliabilty package...

Vvega, I can see where you are coming from. Bazda has ment the engine will be less reliable by using cheaper parts everywhere but has also said link is poos. This is what nick is responding too as bazda didn't seperate the two statements.

Sure we all know its a good idea to use the best components available, but price is an issue to most of us. To say link ecus are poos is opinionated and non-factual, unlike the rest of the post so I'm guessing barry was having a dig at those using links.

[mister2]

Lol, yeah that comprehension was always my weak point. Yeah I can see where you're coming from, all I was trying to convey is that in terms of the ECU, the quality of the tune is more important than the ECU brand.

Although, you could make a point that the tune is the more important part of reliability - a crap one is still going to pop even the gruntiest motor (turbo stuff I'm talking about here, NA will tolerate more), whereas a exceptional tuner will be able to make a weaker motor last.

I guess it comes down HP/L, the higher specific power you go, the more important the tune becomes in terms of reliability.

Speaking of making 1000hp with a 4AGE, did you see the one that was built for land speed records in the USA, destroked to 1.5L running 45+psi boost?

Cheers

Nick

[flygt4]

i found my link struggles to deal with the quad throttles . admittedly it is a very old model. it does do everything required to make big power on WOT, but for off-onboost transitions it struggles to get it right.

before you go on about the quality of the tune, i took it to andre for all my tuning. a/f ratios were really nice and the power was good. main annoyance was that it required a lot of time road tuning to get the little bits acceptable, even still the best you can get is to reduce it to a lot of popping and burbling on part throttle.

it doesnt bother me too much as i use it mostly for racing and am on full throttle most of the time, but if i was trying to drive it daily it would be a bastard.

the annoying thing is, once i changed my fuel system, it required just as much finetuning to get it acceptable again. when you are paying someone for the time it takes to piss around with that stuff a better ecu could probly pay for itself.

i have been looking into changing ecu's as im going to want more features than i have now, and was recommended to use an autronic if my budget would allow.

[vvega]

yeap bob norwood
he current has the highest hp 4age thats documented .
and its a 20v :d
the sicking part was that even destroked to 1 liter ?? or 1.1
it was still pumping out over 600 ponys

as for ecu's
i have a lem5 powerign my 3sgte aw11 and i cant really fault it

i put it in... turned teh key ajusted teh master fuel and ....its very drivable on teh base map

TBH im not there greatest fan nor do i like megasquirts
but i tuner that knows his shit can make them go fine

some people like apples aome people liek oranges
but a good chief can make them both taste good


v

[mister2]

flygt4 -

Yeah that is a problem with anything that has unadjustable zone boundaries and relatively large MAP steps. Basically you've got about 3 rows for tuning all off boost mapping in the LEMv5 which really isn't enough to do it properly (on multi-throttle turbo setups that is). New Link stuff is fine because you can just change or add zones to accomodate more resolution in the part of the map that you need it, OR you can have an overlay table, ie tune it with wastegate disconnected in TPS mode then add a second map with MAP correction. But anyway andre should be able to tell you about it, an LEM G3 will see you right, and will handle more than 22psi with boost AND idle AND launch control/antilag

vvega -
nice quote, will have to remember that one.

Cheers

Nick

[flygt4]

thanks nick , i must admit i dont get too involved with the finer details of the ecu, other than knowing which features i require and which i dont, and noticing what effects performance firsthand.
andre explained to me briefly the limits of the ecu, and i mentioned i was considering going to a new link, or other ecu. i had a replacement link in mind to attempt to minimise the rewiring required. havent yet decided as it will probly be 6 months away before i get to that bridge. the current one i have came with the car, so the only real reason for keeping it was convenience.

must say the 22psi limit was quite frustrating when trying to squeeze extra power out of a 1.6L engine and still retain good response.

[soopachargen]

i think you'll find that baz's remark about the link was just a cheeky side remark, i've discussed them with him before and he just prefers the extra features you get from a higher end ECU, but a good comparrison thread on ECU's would be awesome for the FAQ, which ECUs people like... who tunes them... why we like them... what they cost... what features they have an how they are beneficial to us. Theres too much really good technical information that slips through the cracks on here.

[flygt4]

friend of mine is using a motec, and is switching co2 intercooler spray at a set rpm, man its cooool, ice cool actualy freezes up nthe cooler if not careful.

[IH8TEC]

i think you'll find that baz's remark about the link was just a cheeky side remark, i've discussed them with him before and he just prefers the extra features you get from a higher end ECU, but a good comparrison thread on ECU's would be awesome for the FAQ, which ECUs people like... who tunes them... why we like them... what they cost... what features they have an how they are beneficial to us. Theres too much really good technical information that slips through the cracks on here.

autotune feature is quite cool on them too, and a few company's are looking into also, i think wolf has it, and microtech are currently working on it.

[soopachargen]

knowledge is power... keep the information flowing

[4000GT]

Currently I've gone with the LinkPlus G2 for my Supra project car and LEM V5 for the Levin race car and had other Links in the past. The G2 (and by default LEM G3), has awesome features. The older Link stuff meet a market need well, it was extremely well priced and was great for repowers for people on a tight budget. The new Link stuff competes with the best of them in the "Plus" range and in some ways so does the LEM G3, while maintaining very reasonable prices for the features you get. They have taken a big leap forward in capability in my opinion with the next generation ECU's. For the money I dont know of an ECU that has the features and user friendly interface of the LinkPlus G2. Are there more expensive ECU's out there? Yes. Are there cheaper ECU's out there? Yes. It's about finding the ECU that has the support and features that fit into the budget of the buyer. For me, Link does this.

I think its unfair and perhaps ill-informed to make sweeping statements about Link's products today if they are being judged only on the efforts of the past. Keep in mind the price reflects the functions, and the LEM range was under $1000! Pretty hard price to beat. They have evolved!

And yes, I am being a loyal Kiwi and supporting Link. When you think about it, its amazing that little ole New Zealand has a company like this on our shores! So I am more than happy to keep them here by buying their products while receiving great value...

[flygt4]

i think the most annoying thing is when people comment on something they have no first hand experience with, only what they heard from their brothers mate uncles daughters goat. far too common an occurance on TS

[Bazda]

its poos....lol yes that was me just beign cheeky, i was refering to the old links not the G2 , isnt the new one like $2k now days. so its up there with the autronic price.

y do people always go on about well this guy used it to run a 9, frik u can make any ecu run a 9 lol, its the drivablity i get from the autronic that I like and you would not get that with an old link thats what im talking about .

[flygt4]

amen