Ethanol in petrol

[barryogen]

not too sure if anyone here is interested or not, but there is a plan to put ethanol into NZ petrol by the end of 2008..

Firstly I found this,
http://www.energywise.org.nz/yourtravel/fuel-economy/ethanol-blended-petrol.html

and then flicked them an email for a timeframe of the adoption of it, which I got this reply.

Hi Dave,

Thanks for your email.

EECA has been working with the Ministry of Transport and Ministry of Economic Development on the development of a proposed new biofuels sales obligation, which would require oil companies to sell a minimum percentage of biofuels from 2008. The sales obligation could be met with either bioethanol (in petrol) or biodiesel (in diesel). A Government announcement on the sales obligation is expected in late February.

Details about the proposal are available on MOT’s website here:

http://www.mot.govt.nz/biofuels-440-index/

It’s possible that one or more of the oil companies may launch biofuels prior to the introduction of the sales obligation in 2008, but at this stage none have confirmed this publicly.


Regards,
Anna Warren
Marketing and Communications Advisor
Energy Efficiency and Conservation Authority (EECA)
Level One • 44 The Terrace • P O Box 388 • Wellington
T: 04 470 2229 • F: 04 499 5330 • M: 021 441 699


EECA is improving energy choices. Find out more by visiting www.eeca.govt.nz

Anyone know what this will mean?
As I understand it, putting ~10% ethanol in petrol will make cars produce a bit less emmisions, and it will increase the octane a slight bit, and hamper performance a bit(due to less energy per litre) but not enough to notice supposedly.

[magnazan]

My bad wrong thread :E

[sergei]

I had a list of the NZ-New vehicles on my hand, and apperantly all toyotas past 1991 are ok with 10% mix. But what really strange that all turbo subarus are not compatible with that fuel. So here is the question: what makes these subarus different from Caldinas/Celicas turbo, assuming they both use Nippon Denso/Aisin fuel parts?

[MasCam]

There was some talk about this a while ago before Gull introduced it and stirred up a big ho-ha. One of the things that might happen is that companies might put 3% ethanol into all of thier petrol instead of having one bio-fuel with 10%.

I understand that this is far less likely to cause any problems with the majority of cars when compared to the E10 blend.

Anyone see the latest Top Gear magazine? In scandinavia somewhere they have E85 (85% ethanol) and the nice boys at Konigsegg have tuned a special car to run on it and produce MORE power, it also qualifies for all sorts of government incentive as it is a nice eco friendly car now

[AceSniper]

the states also have E85... look on the net.... but to run that the car has to be designed to handle it, they pritty much say E10 is fine for most, after all it is alcohol... (run rich and set off all the cop breth testers )
Ill have no problem pumping it into mine when it gets here

[Adamal]

I had a list of the NZ-New vehicles on my hand, and apperantly all toyotas past 1991 are ok with 10% mix. But what really strange that all turbo subarus are not compatible with that fuel. So here is the question: what makes these subarus different from Caldinas/Celicas turbo, assuming they both use Nippon Denso/Aisin fuel parts?

Any idea about Jappa imports??

Not that any of mine qualify. They're both NZ new, but both pre 1991!!!

[sergei]

I would assume that NZ-new or not they both would use same seals/lines/other fuel components.

[®usty]

(I know its an old thread, but I'm using the search button. so there)

So I will be able to drive my Celica, and this new fuel if I use it, won't blow up my motor, or I won't end up with heaps of problems etc
thanks

[Dell'Orto]

Nah your car should be fine. Definately wont make your car go bang!

[®usty]

cool thanks, because my dads the boss at gilbarco (simular to fuelquip, does airports and other petrol stations etc) and was saying that my car and my brothers cars (skyline and silvia) will get sent back to japan as tin cans (I think its just because he's old lol)

[ChaosAD]

What would need to be done to run an ae82 with a silvertop engine and aftermarket ecu on E85?

Are there any fuel system parts that will need replacing? Bigger injectors? Higher comp ratio.

[Jdawg]

I had a list of the NZ-New vehicles on my hand, and apperantly all toyotas past 1991 are ok with 10% mix. But what really strange that all turbo subarus are not compatible with that fuel. So here is the question: what makes these subarus different from Caldinas/Celicas turbo, assuming they both use Nippon Denso/Aisin fuel parts?

The Subby Forester we got runs shitloads better and more economical on Gull 98 over other 95. Maybe Subaru simply never got them rated to use it rather than can't run on it.

[AceSniper]

What would need to be done to run an ae82 with a silvertop engine and aftermarket ecu on E85?

Are there any fuel system parts that will need replacing? Bigger injectors? Higher comp ratio.

whole fuel system... cant have exposed wires in the fuel tank as ethonol conducts

[ChaosAD]

So id need to remove the fuel pump and level sender and modify them.
What about the materials used in the fuel system? some such as magnesium, some plastics etc will react.

[sergei]

Pure ethanol or ethanol/non polar stuff mix (petrol) does not conduct electricity. Only when ethanol mixed with water in large quantities and some salts (ethanol can dissolve some salts to an extent).
As for electrical parts being in the tank - the whole fuel pump motor is cooled with petrol - so are the brushes and slip rings, I doubt that the pumps on post 1991 NZ new vehicles are of entirely different construction, the motors will still need to be cooled some how and it ain't done with air .

[AceSniper]

85% tho... iv read up on the cars that are made to run it in the states, and the fuel system is changed, from memory they use non metal tanks the pumps are setup so no eletrics are in tank fuel lines have teflon inner coating? larger injectors an so-on.... this is just off memory tho... have a look around the net

[ChaosAD]

Because alcohols are electronically conductive and may cause corrosive impurities, they are more corrosive than gasoline. Alcohol also attracts moisture, which increases its corrosive tendencies.

Also cannot be used with aluminium engines apparently. Does that ean the head too?

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f0ca4b0

[sergei]

Methanol is BAD stuff. Methanol is very reactive and will corrode stuff in no time.
Ethanol is OK-ish.