Potential Of 4AGE 20V

[matt dunn]

.I highly doubt he has a dyno graph for his 4AGE but I'll ask anyways.And no he's not from Rotorua,he's from Auckland.

Maybe it was measure with a DynoButt seat-of-the-pants-o-meter.

[Ae92typeX]

.I highly doubt he has a dyno graph for his 4AGE but I'll ask anyways.And no he's not from Rotorua,he's from Auckland.

Maybe it was measure with a DynoButt seat-of-the-pants-o-meter.

lol, good old reliable butt dyno. just did the timing on mini, its at least 120kw for the 1l lump lol...butt measured anyways

[B1NZ]

someone had to say it, if you want a high revving 4cyl powerful NA, buy a honda vtec motor for as cheap as you boss is saying.

i went for a ride with deanis in his crx, has 151kw roughly atw, and with an extra odd 150-160kgs, the thing still hauled buttocks to just under 9000rpm. impressed me alot.

No one was discussing anything about the brand we shal not speak of, just the feasablilty of a high HP 4age, keep that smelly badge out of the topic please

[ROBODISCO_20v]

Yeah,thats what I'm thinking.He said it cost him $6k to build his old 4AGE (220HP),without any labour charge because he did it himself.

Well I must be doing something wrong the engine in my current rally car has had more than that spent on it and it is only a good honest 100kw (135bhp) at the wheels . My atlantic engine will be about 3 - 4 times the cost and I am hoping for about a reliable 220hp at the flywheel. The head work alone on the atlantic engine would probably amount to 6k! and this engine is the real deal not just "atlantic spec"

Don't mean to sound rude but most black tops with a mild tune will put out over 100kW. (mine is) May not be as reliable as your engine under race conditions though.

[4agtepwr]

Id be impressed to see a 20 valve head do that due to the nature of the ports and being able to get a 20 valve head to flow enough cfm to support 275hp NA. Also I think you would be limited by the amount of lift on the cams that you can actully get in to a 20 valve head.

[Logan]

hahaha yes, recent experience says. Dont bother, do a samll port 16v or an atlantic, because its all in the head. Mind you i do have my eyes on some 304in 10.5mm and 314 10,5mm TRD cams for my 20v....

[Mr Revhead]

Yeah,thats what I'm thinking.He said it cost him $6k to build his old 4AGE (220HP),without any labour charge because he did it himself.

Well I must be doing something wrong the engine in my current rally car has had more than that spent on it and it is only a good honest 100kw (135bhp) at the wheels . My atlantic engine will be about 3 - 4 times the cost and I am hoping for about a reliable 220hp at the flywheel. The head work alone on the atlantic engine would probably amount to 6k! and this engine is the real deal not just "atlantic spec"

Don't mean to sound rude but most black tops with a mild tune will put out over 100kW. (mine is) May not be as reliable as your engine under race conditions though.

peak hp is a bollox way to decide how good an engine is
look at the torque curve

[vvega]

Yeah,thats what I'm thinking.He said it cost him $6k to build his old 4AGE (220HP),without any labour charge because he did it himself.

Well I must be doing something wrong the engine in my current rally car has had more than that spent on it and it is only a good honest 100kw (135bhp) at the wheels . My atlantic engine will be about 3 - 4 times the cost and I am hoping for about a reliable 220hp at the flywheel. The head work alone on the atlantic engine would probably amount to 6k! and this engine is the real deal not just "atlantic spec"

Don't mean to sound rude but most black tops with a mild tune will put out over 100kW. (mine is) May not be as reliable as your engine under race conditions though.

peak hp is a bollox way to decide how good an engine is
look at the torque curve

well no
depends on your application for the engine entirely
you know better than that revy :d

[ROBODISCO_20v]

peak hp is a bollox way to decide how good an engine is
look at the torque curve

I agree peak hp isn't everything

[MikeMan]

People need to remember that the "Formula Atlantic" engine was designed for rough parity with the existing Ford BDA. Rev limits and carb restrictions and well as cams and valves sizes that are not maxxed out mean you can do better for that sort of money.

I would think 240-250HP is attainableif you have a HEAP of cash but 270HP is pretty optimistic IMHO.

[vvega]

most people dont realise the 4age is just a ruff copy of a bda

[Chickenman]

It's not that rough vvega, they did alright.

[vvega]

yeah thy did

[RedMist]

What rough copy in the fact that its got 4 valves per cyl and double overhead cams?? The bore, stroke, obviously cc, compression ratio, castings, the included valve angle, the port angle, the cam tray, almost everything is different between the two. I have no idea where the copy quote came from, but I cant see any resemblance.
There may have been some influence, but a copy most certainly not.

[Chickenman]

It's a Belt Driven A series engine?


Definately implies a whole heap of influence.

[MikeMan]

What rough copy in the fact that its got 4 valves per cyl and double overhead cams?? The bore, stroke, obviously cc, compression ratio, castings, the included valve angle, the port angle, the cam tray, almost everything is different between the two. I have no idea where the copy quote came from, but I cant see any resemblance.
There may have been some influence, but a copy most certainly not.

Ummm

Ford BDA (Source)
Capacity: 1601cc
Bore: 80.98mm
Stroke 77.72mm
CR: 10:1
HP: 115BHP

Toyota 4AGE (Source)
Capacity: 1587cc
Bore: 81mm
Stroke: 77.7mm
CR: 9.4:1
HP: 120-130

Yes the 4AGE is a slightly smaller engine (Shorter rods and deck height, that causes its own issues) and in some ways reengineered as you would expect but it is basicly a copy, included valve angle, valve sizes, basic port design all are the same or very similar.

Not taking anything away from Toyota they have built a nice engine (Well them and Yamaha anyway) but it is NOT original work in any way shape or form, the 16V 4AGE is basicly a product improved Ford Cosworth BDA.

[vvega]

lol and here comes the time old arguement
its almost as bad as the roots of teh bda = kent motor
and that teh lotus engine is dirivative of the teh kent

[vvega]

did i mention teh 4age has a hemi inspired head

[MikeMan]

lol and here comes the time old arguement
its almost as bad as the roots of teh bda = kent motor
and that teh lotus engine is dirivative of the teh kent

Lotus Twin Cam started life on the 691F block (Early "Kent" with flat top pistons and dished head) and moved to the 711M (Late "Kent" with bowl in piston design).

BDx was always based on the 711M bottom end.

YBx (YBM and others) is based on the OHC "Pinto" block.

Cosworth (or as the early nickname Cosbodge and Duckfudge had it) got VERY good at taking someone elses bottom end and putting a decent head on it to make power.

Ford (The engines listed above plus the GAA V6)
GM (2L Vaxuhall/Opel twincam from the late 1980's and 1990's)
Merc (190E 2.3-16)

They also do/did clean sheet engines (FVA, FVC, DFV etc.)

But they got their start building 1000CC engines for Formula 2 cars based on the 998cc OHV Ford engine, called the MAE in Cosworths naming convention it was a screamer for a OHV with 100BHP@7800RPM IIRC.

The rest as they say is hostory.

[Mr Revhead]

cosworth......


they be gods