Potential Of 4AGE 20V

[MikeMan]

cosworth......


they be gods

Well yes and no.

In the early days (1965-1966ish IIRC) the old man was building either an MAE or an SCA from a Cosworth kit and directions.

The instructions said the cam timing HAD to be 106 Deg to get the best performance from the unit, well with offset dowels and pulleys he could get 107 or 105.5 but not 106, so he rang Cosworth and asked how to get to 106 seeing as is was 106 that was needed and he could only get 105.5 or 107.

Their answer?

"For gods sake build it, we never get it that close"

When Keith and Mike started the company their nickname in the racing circles in the UK was "Cosbodge and Duckfudge" because of crap like this.

But they did make some nice products, dad reakons that the best sound EVER is a FVA running Lucas slide throttle mechanical injection.

[Mr Revhead]

dude, my daily (whens its back together!) will have a 4k.

hence, cosworth be gods!

[vvega]

lol and here comes the time old arguement
its almost as bad as the roots of teh bda = kent motor
and that teh lotus engine is dirivative of the teh kent

Lotus Twin Cam started life on the 691F block (Early "Kent" with flat top pistons and dished head) and moved to the 711M (Late "Kent" with bowl in piston design).

BDx was always based on the 711M bottom end.

YBx (YBM and others) is based on the OHC "Pinto" block.

Cosworth (or as the early nickname Cosbodge and Duckfudge had it) got VERY good at taking someone elses bottom end and putting a decent head on it to make power.

Ford (The engines listed above plus the GAA V6)
GM (2L Vaxuhall/Opel twincam from the late 1980's and 1990's)
Merc (190E 2.3-16)

They also do/did clean sheet engines (FVA, FVC, DFV etc.)

But they got their start building 1000CC engines for Formula 2 cars based on the 998cc OHV Ford engine, called the MAE in Cosworths naming convention it was a screamer for a OHV with 100BHP@7800RPM IIRC.

The rest as they say is hostory.

isnt it funny how so many engines can come back to a single design that has just deleoped over time
i guess they figgured that why bother tring to start again
lets take a mature development and take it teh next logial step

v

[Mr Revhead]

Early "Kent" with flat top pistons and dished head) and moved to the 711M (Late "Kent" with bowl in piston design).

BDx was always based on the 711M bottom end.

early being the non cross flow
and late being crossflow.....

[MikeMan]

Early "Kent" with flat top pistons and dished head) and moved to the 711M (Late "Kent" with bowl in piston design).

BDx was always based on the 711M bottom end.

early being the non cross flow
and late being crossflow.....

Nope the non-crossflow is the 116E engine.

681F was crossflow but not bowl in piston. Used in mk2 Cortina's and early Escorts

Was replaced with the 711M which was bowl in piston as it was cheaper to build and thta engine was used until very recently in the Ford Ka.

[Logan]

so how about those 20v's? I reckon for a moderate budget of around 5k and get deals on labour if you can get over 150hp at wheels your doing well

[Mr Revhead]

yeah 150 atw isnt too much of a challenge for a 20v.
roughly ony about 20-30hp increase, and a good link and tune will gain most of that

[Logan]

yeah 150 atw isnt too much of a challenge for a 20v.
roughly ony about 20-30hp increase, and a good link and tune will gain most of that

I have to disagree, I dont think you get anywhere near 20-30hp at all from a link and a good tune on a standard blacktop.... I have never seen any proof of these sorts of gains. But Im open to being proven wrong.

[Mr Revhead]

most being a lot, but not all of
but yeah more gains to be had on a silvertop

if your after the ultimate 20v, start with a silvertop

[vvega]

most being a lot, but not all of
but yeah more gains to be had on a silvertop

if your after the ultimate 20v, start with a silvertop

ewans worked up silvertop reving to 10k with cms t support that only got 109 fwkw
his stock blacktop got 105 fwkw
both were on a link

if you wanna start somewhere get a blacktop...dont waste ya time on a silvertop.

[Logan]

most being a lot, but not all of
but yeah more gains to be had on a silvertop

if your after the ultimate 20v, start with a silvertop

yea, cause the silvertops arent as good as the blacktop and you may get more GAINS but outright is a different story. I dont see what makes the silvertop THAT much better than a blacktop, the only real difference is the combustion chamber and the rods.

[Mr Revhead]

i disagree, and so do several top engine builders that have been asked....
silvertop is a better start because of those two things
its only down side is some porting.

[vvega]

funni was talking to lyn rodgers about this.... and he completely disagres with you
the ONLY thing the silvertop has going for it is teh rods......
and revy ive yet to see a silvertop in nz n/a make more than uwens
have you got some dyno numbers to back this up ?
cause all teh dynos that ive ever seen from 20v's are teh complete oposite to what your saying

[Mr Revhead]

watch this space

[vvega]

watch this space

hahaha
this will be fun :d

[AceSniper]

haha revy got sumthen planed? hmmm vvega ull have to help me shut him down with my new engine or will ewans setup im runing be fine?

[Lith]

Maybe someone revvy knows has something planned....

But yeah the most I know of a Silvertop making was 109wkw, sure there would have to the potential for more - but that's going to have to take some work

[Mr Revhead]

yeah my starlet will have a silvertop in it.
so its still a wee way off.
but it will have more than 145hp atw.

im also aware of at least one other silvertop in the build that should excede that figure.

[no_8wire]

why, are you turboing it Rev?

[Mr Revhead]

pffft if i was turboing id be after 300+ hp