Haltech E8 on 3SGTE rev4

[AW11 Turbo]

hi!

i want to run my toyota 3sgte rev4 (out of an caldina gt-t but now in my MR2 AW11) with a haltech E8.
here is a link to my thread in "member projects"
viewtopic.php?t=58123
In this forum i found out that the Ignitor needs a 0-5v square wave signal but my E8 only provides a 12V or 1A sink to ground signal!
can anybody help me solving this problem?

regards
stefan

[strx7]

what on earth is REV4?

I have one of these motors but in a more modified state about to go into a 4wd corolla.

Use a different ignitor if the E8 cant drive it, I'm using an E6X on my install, and using 4 RX7 trail coils for spark.

[atmosports]

I'm picking they mean Gen4 engine as in 4th generation or in this case 4th revision.

As above if it won't handle the standard setup change it. I should be able to help you off the top of my head being a Haltech agent but can't as to be honest I've never tried to put an e8 on one of those motors but I know the last e8 I did was a bit of playing round getting the triggering to work(But that was a bike motor). Best bet seriously would be to jump on the Haltech Forum(www.haltech.com or www.haltech.com.au) & either post up there or else ring/fax/email Haltech direct in Australia, Scott is one of the guys there to talk to & should be able to tell you straight off if it's going to work or not. If you can't do that or have no luck let me know & I'll try & get hold of Haltech myself(If I can find time) & try at this end to get an answer

[AW11 Turbo]

I should be able to help you off the top of my head being a Haltech agent but can't as to be honest I've never tried to put an e8 on one of those motors

my haltech agent here in austria told me exactly the same
he told me that he will contact haltech directly...

well.. i've allready postet in the haltech.com forums...
this is the answer i got:

The ignitor is simply a transistor, the transistor biases at 5v (probably closer to 4.5V actually), because a +12V signal is greater than 4.5V it will still trigger the transistor in your ignitor just fine.

but to be honest.... i don't think it will work this way!

[fivebob]

It will work, but you have to be able to limit the dwell time to < 1.8ms or it will start to misfire, probably due to overheating.

Also it fires on the rising edge, not the falling edge, so you might find the ECU timing will be inaccurate as the revs rise unless it can be configured for this.

[AW11 Turbo]

It will work, but you have to be able to limit the dwell time to < 1.8ms or it will start to misfire, probably due to overheating.

Also it fires on the rising edge, not the falling edge, so you might find the ECU timing will be inaccurate as the revs rise unless it can be configured for this.

well... my english isn't soo good!
a short 12V periode (dwell) for not overheating... is this correct?




in the booklet of my E8 i found this:

D.3 Falling edge and Rising edge Ignition Modules
The waveform that the ignition module expects can vary depending on which edge the module fires a spark.
Rising Edge Triggered – Some Honda and CDI style ignition modules are known to be rising edge
triggered. These modules expect a 12V input signal when idle. When the voltage falls to 0V, the module
charges the coil. When the voltage returns to 12V, the spark is fired.

so it lookes like it can be configured!

[strx7]

E6K, X etc can all be configured to rising or falling edge so an E8 most definitly will be able to

[fivebob]

well... my english isn't soo good!
a short 12V periode (dwell) for not overheating... is this correct?

Your English is a lot better than some on here who have it as their first language

Yes that is correct but the waveform needs to look like this


CH1 = IGT signal from ECU
CH2 = ION signal from igniter (used for misfire detection)
X Axis = 10ms per major division
Y Axis = 2v per major division

in the booklet of my E8 i found this:

D.3 Falling edge and Rising edge Ignition Modules
The waveform that the ignition module expects can vary depending on which edge the module fires a spark.
Rising Edge Triggered – Some Honda and CDI style ignition modules are known to be rising edge
triggered. These modules expect a 12V input signal when idle. When the voltage falls to 0V, the module
charges the coil. When the voltage returns to 12V, the spark is fired.

so it lookes like it can be configured!

Yes, but it the problem there is that it keeps the signal high for the rest of the time so the "dwell" will be too long. It needs to be able to have a 0-12v rising edge signal at the point it wants to trigger the spark for a max dration of 1.8ms and be at 0v for the rest of the time.

As far as I can tell the Toyota COP has an intelligent igniter, it determines the coil charge time itself, the signal provided to it by the ECU is only to trigger the spark so a "Dwell" time is not needed.

[fivebob]

E6K, X etc can all be configured to rising or falling edge so an E8 most definitly will be able to

Maybe so, but can it be configured to produce a signal of only 1.8ms or less duration at all RPMs?

[AW11 Turbo]

many thanks for your answers fivebob
i hope my haltech agent is able to configure all in the right way!

but now i have another question for you!
cam- and crankshaft position sensors are both magnetic reluctance types?
do they work with 12v or 5v?
and do you know how to wire them up?

best wishes from austria!

[fivebob]

many thanks for your answers fivebob
i hope my haltech agent is able to configure all in the right way!

Seems I wasn't quite right about it being a rising edge trigger, it's actually an intelligent ignitor that determines the dwell itself based on RPM and uses the rising edge ad the start of that dwell period. So you can just use standard falling edge trigger with a dwell of around 1.8ms and it should work ok. From what I understand this will be a shorter duration than what the ignitor would do at 7000rpm, after that I'm not sure if the ignitor will use an even shorter dwell and therefore affect the timing. Really need to get an oscilloscope on to it to see what it is doing.

but now i have another question for you!
cam- and crankshaft position sensors are both magnetic reluctance types?
do they work with 12v or 5v?
and do you know how to wire them up?

Both are Magnetic reluctance sensors. As such their output varies by rpm, rising from around 1v at idle at redline I'm not sure what it gets to but it could be as much as 20v. Motec trigger levels for these sensors is 0.2v at 0rpm, 1.0v at 500RPM, 2.0v at 1000rpm, 2.0v at 7000rpm.

They are wired with the a common earth going to the NE- pin on the Stock ECU, signal wire from the cam to the G2+ pin, and signal from the crank to the NE+ pin.

If you have the stock loom then the earth wires coming from the sensor should be Blue, and the signal wire should be Black/White.

Waveform if as follows, except the there is only one cam signal per cycle instead of the four shown here (diagram is actually for a Altezza 3S-GTE)

ECU Pins CH1: G2+, => NE -
ECU Pins CH2: NE+ => NE-
Graph Settings: 2V/DIV, 20ms/DIV
Test Condition: After warmed up, while idling

Notes-
When engine RPM is increasing;
Waveform cycle become shorter
Amplitude become large.

[99gtt]

If you would like we have an e6x allready tuned and wired up for the caldina 3sgte . It only has mild tune of 250hp at 4 wheels on 14.5 psi . Upgrading the ecu so this is no use and selling for $800 this will solve you allot of time and effort as all the hard work has been done.

[AW11 Turbo]

If you would like we have an e6x allready tuned and wired up for the caldina 3sgte . It only has mild tune of 250hp at 4 wheels on 14.5 psi . Upgrading the ecu so this is no use and selling for $800 this will solve you allot of time and effort as all the hard work has been done.

well... thanx...
but i have my e8 allready and i think it fits better to this engine because it has 4inj and 4igt outputs so i can drive every injector/ignitor direct!
i`m nearly ready with the harnes... only trigger and idle is missing...

[strx7]

If you would like we have an e6x allready tuned and wired up for the caldina 3sgte . It only has mild tune of 250hp at 4 wheels on 14.5 psi . Upgrading the ecu so this is no use and selling for $800 this will solve you allot of time and effort as all the hard work has been done.

reply to your PM, i want it

[AW11 Turbo]

the engine harness is ready now... thanks to fivebob

there is only one thing missing to connect with the car... the alternator!
well.. i only got the plug but without any wires in it... and its pins arn't numbered

can anybody help me out with a pinout plan of the alternator?

[strx7]

the wire that comes from the dashboard charging light goes to the L plug and thats basically it

[AW11 Turbo]

well my problem is i don`t know which one is the "L" "S" or "IG" pin...
i have no wires in my Plug so i have no wirecolours and there is also no marking on the plug or on the alternator!