mega grunty honda motors

[barryogen]

Toyota 2zzge and whatever the early 2000 Hondas had in their Type R

That doesn't sound very fair - the 2ZZGE and the B18C-R are more of a comparison, despite the B18C-R being effectively a generation behind. The K20A is lightyears ahead of any of the other 2litre NAs in my opinion.

yeah, well Toyota has been boring in the 2 litre range, nothing particuly sporty there... barring a Camry Sportivo(yep, joking)... so I was stuck with using the only "sporty car"(term applied very loosely) they seem to be doing, the Celica(or RunX) with a 2zz.

I'm not really up to it with Hondas, but surely they didn't drop the ball engine wise too?

[Lith]

yeah, well Toyota has been boring in the 2 litre range, nothing particuly sporty there... barring a Camry Sportivo(yep, joking)... so I was stuck with using the only "sporty car"(term applied very loosely) they seem to be doing, the Celica(or RunX) with a 2zz.

I'm not really up to it with Hondas, but surely they didn't drop the ball engine wise too?

The Beams 3SGE seemed like a decent unit?

The K20A in from the "new" Type-R Integras is a brilliant piece of kit. Its pretty much the "If I had the money, I'd put this..." unit for the NA tweaking Honda fiends wanting to do a transplant these days. If I remember rightly, about $8k and a handy owner can get a K20A + 6-speed gearbox in to a previously B-series Honda. The K20A "spins the right way", and responds insanely well to modifications. In the territory of 165-170fwkw seems to be about the norm for an intake, exhuast, extractors and tuned ECU combination with one of those.

[Defective]

yeah, well Toyota has been boring in the 2 litre range, nothing particuly sporty there... barring a Camry Sportivo(yep, joking)... so I was stuck with using the only "sporty car"(term applied very loosely) they seem to be doing, the Celica(or RunX) with a 2zz.

I'm not really up to it with Hondas, but surely they didn't drop the ball engine wise too?

The Beams 3SGE seemed like a decent unit?

The K20A in from the "new" Type-R Integras is a brilliant piece of kit. Its pretty much the "If I had the money, I'd put this..." unit for the NA tweaking Honda fiends wanting to do a transplant these days. If I remember rightly, about $8k and a handy owner can get a K20A + 6-speed gearbox in to a previously B-series Honda. The K20A "spins the right way", and responds insanely well to modifications. In the territory of 165-170fwkw seems to be about the norm for an intake, exhuast, extractors and tuned ECU combination with one of those.

haha, how about a K20A powered ae111.... now that would be interesting...


Not sure who would get more pissed... honda people or toyota people...

[barryogen]

The Beams 3SGE seemed like a decent unit?

I'm not a great fan of them... sure they're what, ~200HP, but not a lot of fun to drive, although that might have been the weight of the Altezza that they had to push around.

Read the K20 info, looks nice.

[Lith]

I can't see how a 3SGE from a SSIII Celica implanted into an AE111 couldn't be rapid - especially with some freed up breathing and a bit of a tune.

[MacrosSiR]

ok, by see i want details! pictures! how they did it....
im not sayign i dont beleive it, but i genuinly want to see articles etc
240 from 1600cc is cool no matter what it is

This is the best I can find without spending silly time looking for it:

not a b16 but a b20 making 298hp
http://www.theoldone.com/articles/badtothebone/
http://www.theoldone.com/articles/Larry ... _Civic.htm

[flygt4]

the beams 3sge's are pretty good. still a long way off the k20's tho kinda like the difference between a b16 and a 4age.

altezza 3sges have been known to put down ~130-140wkw with a few smart mods. the single vvti beams that came in the caldina and a few celicas was only rated like 20hp less than the dual vtti altezza version, i would imagine they wouldnt be too far behind.
i remember someone dynod a single vvti engine in an mr2, so same sorta drivetrain losses , at ~125wkw with a pretty average tune.

[Mr Revhead]

id say the gap between a k20 and beasm would be a fai bit bigger than 4age - b16


whats a k20 in again?

[deanis]

whats a k20 in again?

aeriel atom, the 2nd fastest car round the top gear test track when they tested it. or the fastest allmotor drag cars in the world. or a 2005 dc5 integra.

[flygt4]

haha ariel doesnt count, isnt it supercharged as an option for 300hp in those it the 2L mill out of new ugly integras.

[Mr Revhead]

i meant stock!!

and an atom isnt a car! its a "car"

[IH8TEC]

why can't some of you just accept the fact that a 4age is not in the same league as the honda motors. is it really that hard to grasp it's been proven how many times, on dyno around the world, on tracks around the world. what more do you want? another 50 pages of pointless arguement.

seriously

[Mr Revhead]

actually last i checked we'd moved on from that

[flygt4]

lol topic changed now

[oem-r]

i have two friends who have an EG shell with a built b18cr, and the other being a civic type r, with a built b18cr too.

both have aftermarket cams, one running buddyclub spec3 cams and the other spec 4, with aftermarket valves and retainers, and pistons, port n polished, and the usual IHE both tuned with hondata s300, the civic type r made 160kw atws on speedtechs dyno.

the eg with b18cr made 155 on speedfactors and speedtechs dyno. that puts both of them over 200 hp at the wheels.

though theyre not b16a's, I'd like to see a 4age equivilent make the same power as the honda, in nz atleast.

tis a stupid arguement, it will go on and on......, i prefer hondas

and like many people have said the results from the toyota vs honda drags speak for themselves

[MacrosSiR]

id like to see a 240hp n/a b16a please

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1860713
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7ba_LUUzx4

[Lith]

Formula Atlantics come up in many articles - it proves a point. B16As and 4AGEs can both make 240hp NA....

[fivebob]

id like to see a 240hp n/a b16a please

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1860713

lol, but that's a 2.1l version, not really comparable with a 1.6l

[MacrosSiR]

2.1L

still has a b16a stamp on the block

[fivebob]

still has a b16a stamp on the block

I'm pretty sure that when Revhead posed the question he was wanting to see a 1.6l Honda making 240HP not a bored and stroked version.

For it's displacement it's not that impressive, back in the days of BTCC 3S-GEs were pushing 300hp with 70cc less.