Electric Vechiles...Who wants to make one??

[Roydon]

So I have been looking at building one of these for a month now and was wondering if anybody on here had looked into it? I saw the one on Cambell live and thought id have a geez at his website.. www.kiwiev.com
It looks so perfect for my needs its frightening!! What does everybody else think?

[Akane]

I think it's a waste of time in New Zeeeeeeland, especially if you live on the north shore, electricity is so expensive here, after you spend time and money on making one, you won't get any returns for a long long time. Better off holding on to that gas guzzler for now.

[sergei]

It will be a lot cheaper than gas, even if the electricity is "so expensive".
I want to build one, but I want to do it properly and that means NO to the following things:
Lead Acid batteries
DC motor

I am going to build one, eventually, and I will use the following:
AC Motor (~$5000+ $5000 for controller that also will do Regen. braking unlike DC system)
Li-Ion (~$5000-10000 depending on how far I want it to go)

I will probably go with purposely built Brusa or Siemens motor and motor controller (that is designed for EV and not a fork lift).

Using DC motor is waste of time, they are very inefficient compare to AC, expensive, brushes wear out, and very heavy.

Build cost will be about $25-$30k.
As first proof of concept it is not too bad.
The problem is that the parts aren't mass produce yet hence why it is so expensive. Think about building a 4AGE from scratch for a small run of 500, how much it will cost, my guess about $50k per motor.

[Roydon]

When im working back home, I may travel 80kms max per week. Im not to fussed on using lead acid battries as I would want to make one as cheap as possible as i only have 15k max to spend on this. Due to no experience whatsoever with anything like this I am planning on copying Gavins EV as much as possible regarding his choice of motor and Batteries

I know that an EV would not be everybodys cup of tea but I have no problems paying an extra $20 a month on the power bill. Once more and more people start building them they will be more accepted i think

[Bling]

Seen the movie "Who killed the electric car?"?

Could be worth a look, not for information really, but for a bit of background as to how far electric cars actually came before they systematically got wiped out.

[Jdawg]

What car were you planning on using?
You may get better performance using a kit car or hot rod type rather than an old shitter like a tredia. You would be able to keep the weight down and looks far better.

[pc]

It will be a lot cheaper than gas, even if the electricity is "so expensive".

Show me the math.
Cheap small engine cars are superior to anything that can be built electric. More range, less cost, no mucking around.

Electric cars are for hobbiests.

[DeeCee]

Just looking at the project, using some contacts around the place, I'm sure that it is very do-able for cheaper.

Sealed lead acid batteries would be better than the endurant ones he used for a start with a low ESR and high discharge rate (batteries we use for DBDrag would be perfect) and we can get decent chargers as well as we're used to charging battery banks lol.

Use something like an MR2 and you have a nice sports coupe

[Roydon]

What car were you planning on using?
You may get better performance using a kit car or hot rod type rather than an old shitter like a tredia. You would be able to keep the weight down and looks far better.

I want to use my little hyundai excel that ive had for years. Its just died on me. Im not to fussed what i drive at the moment, I think im past the stage of showing off kk

[pidge]

From Wikipedia

1 L of 91 RON Petrol has ~ 34.8MJ, or 9.67kWH.

Assuming an efficiency of 25% for ICE, and 90% for Electric and ignoring regenerative braking:

1L of petrol = 2.7kWH of power from the grid (9.67 * 0.25 / 0.9)

Electricity is about 20c a unit, so 1L petrol is equivalent to 54c of electricity.

1000 L fuel per year = $2000
2700 kWH Electricity = $540
over 10 years, thats ~$14,600 extra spent on Fuel

With regenerative braking, the electricity required drops to perhaps $400 per year.

YMMV

Also - consider that most people just need to get to a from work, and that's no more that 60km per day for most people.

[molex]

You're not taking into account additional losses through the transmission/driveline etc, much of which can be avoided with electric.

I've looked at this several times over the past few years and come to much the same conclusions as sergei. I wouldn't use lead acid batteries, they're pretty poor technology, DC motors don't appeal. Regenerative braking holds great appeal and light weight vehicle is critical. End conclusion is it's entirely doable but for the sort of K's I do, not economical at all...

I was thinking about building a lightweight daily from an NA starlet, possibly an older EP71. Replace the motor with a fuel injected 4e or 5e and tune for ultimate economy with a second hand link or something similar. Starlet GT box with the longer final drive for low rpm cruise, Skinny tires with high pressure for low rolling resistance, replace all bearings etc. Do a few aero mods for lower cd, strip any excess weight out of it. Could probably get down to a weight of ~750kg quite easily

*much* more affordable than an electric conversion and potentially some very real fuel savings

[pidge]

You're not taking into account additional losses through the transmission/driveline etc, much of which can be avoided with electric.

I'm not dissing electric, just providing some "back of the napkin" calculation. Feel free to change the effecienies with more accurate numbers.

Hell, I'd love a electric car to get to and from work. It's just that my current car costs me ~$4k/year in fuel, maintenance, insurace, registration, tyres and deprciation (1991 AE101 GTZ, worth perhaps $3k, but basically irreplaceable). Getting a new or "new" car, whatever gains I'd make in fuel efficeincy, would be blown on depreciation.

[~SlideWays~]

What is the main reason you want to build one? As a project or to save money?

If its to save transport costs, why not get a motorbike? Free parking in a lot of places, performance AND economy.

If its just as a project "just cause"... then - as you were

[Roydon]

Its a mix of project and long term money savings really, I would only use it for driving to and from work when im home and my gf would use it for all her little bits and pieces.
I already have a Suzuki GN250 that i use when the weathers fine, but I prefer riding bigger bikes so its a lacking for me in the personality stakes

[Stealer Of Souls]

DO IT!

Good luck, should be fun!

[neo]

I tried a search, but weren't we talking about this no so-long ago?

At goodwood I saw some nice ideas in the Electric Car Tent. A lotus 7 type replica with the motor placed just behind the driver and batteries up the front. Motor went straight into the diff. Very nice

I'm still trying to get an explanation why you wouldnt want gears.. I know there is linear power delivery, but acceleration must suffer with a single fixed ratio.

I've been tempted to reproduce the concepts in the cordia in my racecar, however the downside would be a max of 9 laps of manfield before all the batteries would be dead... and I wouldnt be able to drive home after

[postfach]

I'm still trying to get an explanation why you wouldnt want gears.. I know there is linear power delivery, but acceleration must suffer with a single fixed ratio.

Probably not as much as you'd think, electric motors produce peak torque at stall.

Take an electric RC car as an example, yes obviously they're very light, but they also have really small motors that don't make a huge amount of power. They accelerate fairly quickly and only have one gear. Power to weight in them is probably much better than that of the car in the links up the top, but you get the idea. If someone were to make a tubeframe kit car with a fibreglass body, perhaps single or 2 seater, with a decent motor in it, it wouldn't be that slow.

[flygt4]

for the casual user lightweight petrol vehicles are much more sensible.
I remember seeing a comparision between a toyota prius hybrid and a Fiat panda 100hp (1.4L and 98hp). panda beat it in running costs, purchase cost and was still fun to drive. just a shame we don't get them here.
As someone said before , find a lightweight car and make it economical,or buy a motorbike.

slightly OT but anyone seen the southpark episode with the hybrid vehicles? its bloody funny

[Bling]

Bumping this thread up from the basement as I found a good site (randomly) for those interested in building one

http://www.evalbum.com/ with nearly 2000 'vehicles'