Price for ST205 GT4?

[Mr Revhead]

whats that noise? oh! its the point rushing right over your head!

[Alex B]

This thred has a point? I think not.

[iOnic]

This thred has a point? I think not.

spot on

[touge rolla]

Yeah the point was something like this...
Celica ST205 $7000
Cosworth Engine rebuild $4.67
New clutch from Midas $1700
Not being just another tosser in an Evo or WRX.....Priceless

[Bling]

Thread delivered

[RedMist]

I actually secretly know that the celica is in fact much faster than the lighter and more powerful evo/wrx (of course). it is also far more luxurious than either of two because celica interiors are world renowned for their luxury (of course). I apologise profusely for comparing a limited edition high end performance vehicle to lesser models like the lancer evolution and impreza wrx's. Afterall between the two of them they only have more WRC wins than anything else. I hope you can accept my sincere apology

It's interesting to note the WRC wins. The Celica GT4 only competed from 88 to 94. 7 years of competition netting 4 world rally driver championships. They would have taken the 95 championship and probably continued for 96 if it werent for a slight technical infringement. You have to remember that the Celica was designed specifically to homologate a rally car, when that rally competition died in the mid 90's so did Toyota's need to homologate the Celica (or any replacement) as such the ST205 was born in 94 and had SFA development until it's death in 99. Meanwhile the WRX and Evo were fighting for table scraps. As a pre 96 rally car it's heavy but well planted and powerful... I would have proved it compeditive if it was easy enough to fit 15 inch rally rims on the thing!

[B1NZ]

It's interesting to note the WRC wins. The Celica GT4 only competed from 88 to 94. 7 years of competition netting 4 world rally driver championships. They would have taken the 95 championship and probably continued for 96 if it werent for a slight technical infringement. You have to remember that the Celica was designed specifically to homologate a rally car, when that rally competition died in the mid 90's so did Toyota's need to homologate the Celica (or any replacement) as such the ST205 was born in 94 and had SFA development until it's death in 99. Meanwhile the WRX and Evo were fighting for table scraps. As a pre 96 rally car it's heavy but well planted and powerful... I would have proved it competitive if it was easy enough to fit 15 inch rally rims on the thing!

Ignoring the "smart" people that have run out of things worth saying so just use mastercard ad formats

Your right, the Celica was a great and very successful rally car, as for the slight technical infringement - they were caught cheating

I always wanted to try and use an ST185 or ST205 in motorsport down here, But I've heard from a few good sources that they were not a very good car out of the box as they were too front heavy and under steered very badly, Toyota had to throw millions in R&D to get them going any good apparently.

It would have been good to see you rallying one as I don't think I've ever seen one being rallied. But I'm wondering if there was good reason for this? Is it because the EVO/STI is easier to get parts for or is it something else?

You would think that the price that they are going for now would make them an attractive car for 4WD class rallying?

[Leon]

Pity that the buy price of a rally car is such a small % of the running / build costs

ps: handbag

[RedMist]

The ST205 was designed to run on 16 inch rally tyres. They were regulated out and you simply can't get anything other than 15 inch rally tyres today. The front disks need to be reduced in diameter and the calipers remounted.
Then there is the issue of Superstrut. I investigated the WRC solution, which is custom arms and titanium hubs. I was offered a front end solution for 10k UKP, not something I was about to take up! The ST206 McPherson strut arms and stub axles mount straight up but the strut needs ST205 top mounts. I just think nobody has played with Toyota box parts yet.... still the geometry may be well and truly fluffed up. I don't know until I get the ST205 disks back... and I pull finger.
For a pre 96 car I think its too much work for most. It's further enhanced by the fact that there is so few off the shelf parts for rallying the Celica.

Personally I think the weight distribution will be an advantage. It may make the car pointier, but will also put more weight over the true drive wheels in rallying.

Even without rallying the car yet I do have one complaint. It's also one expressed by the WRC drivers. The cabin is small and you have to lower the seats in order to get head clearance for cage, padding and helmet.... given the driver orientation you can see nothing of the front corners. Big square box on wheels would be easier to place. Of course I'm talking of the Evo.

[Mr Revhead]

they main issue with the ST205 for gravel rallying was its width iirc

not sure weight has much to do with it as rallying runs minimum weights. unless of course you cant get down to that weight. but in a rally car 80-100kgs isnt as much of a penalty as circuit. in rallying the driver matters more.

i think cost was a big factor in running a 205 when they were new.
that and there wasnt an "ra" version etc. like in the STIs

[Mr Revhead]

moral of the story, buy an STI for rallying
and a 205 for fun

if you must have four doors...... your a nana





but corolla wagons are cool

[RedMist]

Pity that the buy price of a rally car is such a small % of the running / build costs

ps: handbag

Ain't that the truth!!

[RedMist]

moral of the story, buy an STI for rallying
and a 205 for fun

if you must have four doors...... your a nana

I always saw the Celica as a throwback to when rally car's were sexy. It was the only car of the era not designed only using straight lines. There is a fair percentage of that car that's form over function and it does show on the race track. But I'd still own a Celica over an STI for racing. The boxer engine just costs too much to develop and run. However if it was all about competing, I'd have an Evo over both of them.

[Dell'Orto]

but corolla wagons are cool

Only when K powered

[B1NZ]

If you dont have friends you don't need 4 doors

[B1NZ]

The ST205 was designed to run on 16 inch rally tyres. They were regulated out and you simply can't get anything other than 15 inch rally tyres today. The front disks need to be reduced in diameter and the calipers remounted.

Oh - yeah that sounds like a problem, How do they rally imprezas then? As they come with 16inch wheels as standard? Do 15inch wheels fit on my car?

I might have to investigate this and put some phat 15 inch chromies on it

I just had a look at the specs of the 3 cars of the same era too, Revhead I think may have been correct in the width thing, These are the width specs I've found:

WRX: 1385mm

EVO: 1430mm

GT Four: 1750mm - thats quite a bit wider than the other 2

[RedMist]

Its interesting that it took Mitsubishi until 1998 to correct the width of the Evo with the release of the Evo V and a width of 1770. Perhaps Toyota were once again before their time?

Good quote on rallycars.com

Most Celica drivers used to complain saying they were feeling as if they were sitting in a Porsche when driving the car

Interesting comparitive.

[Leon]

Oh - yeah that sounds like a problem, How do they rally imprezas then? As they come with 16inch wheels as standard? Do 15inch wheels fit on my car?

You can get some Compomotive 15s that will go over the four pots on the front, otherwise it is 17s all the way.

Things I was having to contemplate when I was looking for Sti wheels / tyres.

[DaVe0r]

Sounds like you should be driving a Cefiro or Silvia? 4WD's are supposed to grip - not loose traction

i did, old S13 siliva but it failed ..hard

i think the reason i can drift0 out corners is that it has $100 tyres on each wheel 16"/225/45's
really stuffs up the cars handling as i barely made a sub 2m at Taupo, that and i cant really drive