st205 openions/feedback owners/ ex-owners

[Lith]

dont need luck, just a decent driver! type Rs arnt the be all and end all of cornering and 205s are very good in the flowing twisty bits, and having some boost and 4wd they get out of corners very very well.
i know which one id rather do a long drive on nz roads like the lewis pass in

I had this discussion with a GT4 driver years ago and he decided to prove to me how good a GT4 is around a fairly straightish set of windies and I couldn't wait to get out of the car - but now I've been or driven both types of car in anger and have to say I suspect the people saying the GT4 would be better through windies probably haven't, or are just a little one eyed.

[Mr Revhead]

well, i 100% disagree with you there

[Snoozin]

You're 100% wrong.

[Lith]

I am pretty sure if GT4s were track friendly, they'd have earnt the reputation years ago - much like Type R Integras, EVOs, STIs etc.

[sergei]

I will tell you one thing, TypeR is a lot easier to drive. Great beginners cars, that is why they succeed in racing.
Stock for stock typeR vs ST205, ST205 will have an advantage. Can average Joe use that advantage? no.
First thing that came to my mind when I drove hard various typeRs (civics, integra even rally prepped integra) was "wow, this is fun".
First thing that came to my mind when I drove hard ST205 was "Oh Jesus, is the back supposed to step out?!?, OMG, OMG, that was close".
As for windy roads, I feel that ST205 takes a bit of learning, while any one can drive hard the TypeR (and think they are racers).
Then there is weight advantage, really shows on the very tight corners (the ones marked 25), basically TypeR will do well there.
But any other corners you could do better with ST205, you could come in hot and get out hot.

Although FWD will always have an advantage over any other WD - you can drive FWD with no braking.
Fiesta Racing Trophy car, I was servicing for Mark Tapper, and he drove it on Targa Rotorua without using brakes. He beat the TypeRs, Evos, etc. even managed to overtake people on ~30k stages. That car has pathetic power (about 80kw atw). Brakes on those things are tiny, about of the same size as stock AE101, there were not even hot.

So to conclude it comes to the driver utilising the car fully,

[Mr Revhead]

I am pretty sure if GT4s were track friendly, they'd have earnt the reputation years ago - much like Type R Integras, EVOs, STIs etc.

whos talkng about that track? we're talking real world nz roads here.

sergie, i found the 205s i have driven to have very good grip, definitly easier to use than most FWDs, sure to get the last out of any car its down to being a very good driver. but its not safe to drive like that on the road

also handling is a subjective thing... and also down to driving style.. if your the last of the late brakers and hurl the car about, any 4wd is going to feel crap!

anyway my point is the 205 is not crap like a lot of ppl here are making out
yes there are better, but there are more worse

[Lith]

I am pretty sure if GT4s were track friendly, they'd have earnt the reputation years ago - much like Type R Integras, EVOs, STIs etc.

whos talkng about that track? we're talking real world nz roads here.

Have you got a more quantifiable way of comparing it? People giving their opinions on how their preferred choice goes may as well mean nothing, a track time at least gives a decent idea of what the total package would have to be like.

anyway my point is the 205 is not crap like a lot of ppl here are making out yes there are better, but there are more worse

Pointing out the fact that a GT4 wouldn't keep up with a Type-R is by no means calling it crap.

[iOnic]

lol @ gt4 vs itr......I love toyotas as much as the next person don't get me wrong.......but some things just shouldn't be compared

[sergei]

Well, I think ITR would fall into the same class as 20v.
GT4 on other hand is a level up.
Yes you can have race track prepped ITR. You can also have 600HP GT4 which also race track prepped. Guess who would win in real race?
Compare apples to apples please.
That is why you need to compare GT4 to say EVO or WRX.
EVOs and WRXs are popular because there are a lot more of them around, there a lot more of bits you could buy off shelf for them, because there are a lot more of them.

Same applies ITR. How many ITRs, EVO and WRX you see on daily basis. How many ST205s (unless you have some neighbour who has one)?

[Mr.Phreak]

This thread is probably just going to convince people to grab ITR's cos 205 owners are weird folk

[Lith]

EVOs and WRXs are popular because there are a lot more of them around, there a lot more of bits you could buy off shelf for them, because there are a lot more of them.

As it happens I see ST205s on virtually a daily basis. There is a nearly 70 year old woman who shops at the supermarket across from my work in a red ST205 GT-Four, I shxt you not. There are less of them around than their "competition" but you don't hear much of the ones that ARE around, I guess to hear much you have to have noteable results.

I'm not comparing highly modded Type-Rs with stock GT-Fours either, I've not seen a modded GT-Four go sub 1:26 at Manfeild yet - which is about the zone a well driven bone stock Type-R can cut. There was a Port Road event down in Welly not too long ago that a GT-Four entered in, manages 19th out of 21 in its class and its time would have earnt it bottom 20th percentile in the sub 2000cc class (ie, NA) class - slower than any 4AGE or Honda powered car entered.

So you are right, in that sense a Type-R and a 20v are closer matched to each other than a GT-Four and by "higher" I'd agree if you mean laptimes.

[Mr Revhead]

far too much drug taking in this thread....

back on topic, jzx100 vs st205 for the OP

as stated, i think you need to drive both and see what u like most....

[Mr Revhead]

I am pretty sure if GT4s were track friendly, they'd have earnt the reputation years ago - much like Type R Integras, EVOs, STIs etc.

whos talkng about that track? we're talking real world nz roads here.

Have you got a more quantifiable way of comparing it? People giving their opinions on how their preferred choice goes may as well mean nothing, a track time at least gives a decent idea of what the total package would have to be like.

anyway my point is the 205 is not crap like a lot of ppl here are making out yes there are better, but there are more worse

Pointing out the fact that a GT4 wouldn't keep up with a Type-R is by no means calling it crap.

and a good car on track can be a real pos on the road..... and vice versa... so when talkng about what daily driver you want, the track and drags are pretty much irrelavant

[sergei]

well if it comes to chaser vs GT4, chaser is not go fast around the corner thing. It can go slow around the corners, or it can go sideways slow around the corners. Chaser probably will be quicker on straight line, and single turbo has really smooth power delivery.
As in running in race track, you could have a good driver going faster in a Lada, than Joe Blogs (unless Joe Blogs is professional driver) in a Ferrari.
As having Joe Blogs in ITR vs Joe Blogs in ST205, of course ITR would win.
My point being ITR is a lot easier to drive fast (no turbo lag to worry, no need to worry what the center diff is up to and where the power goes etc).

[RunningRich]

What Sergei is trying to say is that an ITR is a girl's car designed for picking up groceries.

[Girvs]

Well, I think ITR would fall into the same class as 20v.

I lol'd in RL

[iOnic]

My point being ITR is a lot easier to drive fast (no turbo lag to worry, no need to worry what the center diff is up to and where the power goes etc).

LOL there is nothing easy about driving a car that only has power after 6000rpm. If you think turbo lag is bad try falling out of the powerband in any N/A car

[Lith]

What Sergei is trying to say is that an ITR is a girl's car designed for picking up groceries.

To me he was saying an ITR was best suited to Joe Bloggs (ie, most people here) who want to get from Point A to Point B quickly, which pretty much backs up what I was saying.

Revhead sounded like he is angling in the cosy/comfort direction for the GT-Four - which is moving more in the direction I'd rate a GT-Four. They'd be better than a Type-R for cruising, going up mountains in bad weather etc. Whether or not they meant it, a GT4 seems like a good all round sporty cruiser whereas the Type-R is more suited to the typical amateur racer. That would be most people here into participating in motorsport...

[sergei]

My point being ITR is a lot easier to drive fast (no turbo lag to worry, no need to worry what the center diff is up to and where the power goes etc).

LOL there is nothing easy about driving a car that only has power after 6000rpm. If you think turbo lag is bad try falling out of the powerband in any N/A car

Heh, I owned a 20v for over 7 years. I've driven various cars over years. Including ITRs in different state of tune. It is not too difficult to keep the car in sweet spot.

[Lith]

Agreed, the gearing in an ITR is quite well suited to keeping it on the boil and having more than reasonable pull (compared to other sub 2litre NAs) from 6000rpm to 9000rpm makes for plenty of useable grunt and being NA throttle control is quite predictable.